3rd Gen parts - I'm afraid we're on our own Gents

[carbuncle]

We're all going to keep the Gen 3 love alive, and introduce new people to them such that a third-party aftermarket will pop up. 3rd gens are the only guns my wife likes to shoot!

 

[RobG5589]

We're all going to keep the Gen 3 love alive, and introduce new people to them such that a third-party aftermarket will pop up. 3rd gens are the only guns my wife likes to shoot!

And I thought having one 3rd gen lover in the family was expensive. You have two

Of course that's not a bad thing

 

[Practical]

Guns last longer then cars. S&W owes it to their customers to continue to support these weapons.

S&W does NOT owe it to their customers to act like freeloaders and get 'subsidized' parts which are WEAR and TEAR items.

Does Ford or Chevy pay for your tires and windshield wipers? NO.

To be blunt, they offer MORE than they should.

The only hope is that the 3D printer technology becomes cheap enough and common enough that someone takes a MINT 3rd generation and starts making hard to replace parts and finishing them.

Spring can be acquired or customer made. But the specific gun parts could be 'copied'.

 

[kbm6893]

S&W does NOT owe it to their customers to act like freeloaders and get 'subsidized' parts which are WEAR and TEAR items.

Does Ford or Chevy pay for your tires and windshield wipers? NO.

To be blunt, they offer MORE than they should.

The only hope is that the 3D printer technology becomes cheap enough and common enough that someone takes a MINT 3rd generation and starts making hard to replace parts and finishing them.

Spring can be acquired or customer made. But the specific gun parts could be 'copied'.

Never said I deserve free parts that I have worn out. I said many people shoot very little and parts breakage on a gun with very low round count should be covered for free. What I DID say is there are millions of these guns out there and unless somebody steps in and makes these parts, those millions of owners are screwed. And S&W owes it to the person who paid his hard earned money for their product to continue to support them. They only stopped making these guns 5 years ago. The NYPD has thousands of officers carrying them right now.

And unless you are are professional shooter, the tires analogy is pretty thin. I have a 6906 that has less then 1000 rounds through it. If the extractor breaks, it should be replaced for free. If they made me pay then so be it, but I shouldn't have to scour the earth looking for one as if it's the Holy Grail

 

[ColColt]

I'm down to two of the best, the 4516-1 and the one that has resided under my pillow for many years, the 4506 I bought around 1990(my avatar). I have enough springs both recoil and magazine to last the rest of my days and have around 6-8 magazines for the 4506 and no less than about that amount for the 4516-1. Of course, the smaller one will take mags from the 4506 so, it's good to go.

My concerns are parts that are like hens teeth, extractors and the spring, hammer, etc. However, I stopped shooting the 4506 about five years ago and it only has some 700-800 rounds through it, all trouble free I might add. If things went from bad to worse with either of these, as they're home defense pistols, I guess I could fall back on the lowly SW1911.

 

[The West Virginian]

That's hardly surprising. Isn't that the standard approach? Even watch manufacturers won't extend the warranty to a second owner.

With the passing of the 3rd Gen guns, I have been drawn more and more to SIG's P2XX series since it is just about the only non-polymer option out there, unless you want a 1911. I just wish they had more models without the rails.

I am also looking at Sigs. I hate to retire my 6906 but may do just that with a P239. There are a fair amount of good deals on used and CPO. I'm currently looking at some LE trade-ins in 9 and .40 that are listed on Gunsamerica. May not be warranties but there are parts.

 

[VTHokiesDuckHunter]

Lots of good info and sources in some of the posts above.

Like many of you, I love 3rd gens and own several...

Yet my next "3rd gen" will most likely be a SIG P239 SAS. I like to shoot and carry a metal framed, semi-auto, DA/SA with a hammer. Most likely I'll keep the 5906's; 6906; 3913, 4013, 4014, and others in the safe and start carrying a P239.

It's a shame S&W knows how to make a quality metal framed 1911 at a profit, but won't continue making 3rd gen style guns.

If I see a good deal on a CS gun; another Shorty or 4014/3914 or 3913 NL - yeah, I'll snap it up. But for a new production gun or most or my future purchases? Probably SIG's. I've got a P239 on order as well as a P232 if we agree on price. Why the heck does S&W turn it's back on so many loyal customers?

Glocks? If I won one I'd sell it ASAP.

The only polymer framed guns that interest me in the least are the FNX and FNP models (FN - get smart and offer a single stack compact FNX type pistol......)

 

[ColColt]

I still trust the ones I have and the 4506 is my No.1 home defense weapon with the 4516-1 as back up. By standards, they are low round count for their age. When it comes to polymer frame pistols the nod would have to go to the HK USP 45 compact. I don't know about the Sig P220 they're producing today but that use to be my next in line back in the 90's.

 

[ahern25]

Wolff makes springs for the 3rd gen guns. The only problem I ran into was the recoil spring for the 4506 is not the 8 1/4 inch long spring that came stock in the pistol, part number 201610000. It is only about 6 1/2 inches long and feels weaker then the older spring I have in the gun. I have brought up this issue with Wolff and all I got was "Im checking into it and I'll get back to you." That was about almost 2 months ago. I even offered to send in a brand new spring to them so they can test it against the one they make to make sure it is the same. Also the 1006 and 4506 use the same recoil spring but on Wolffs website the 1006 is rated fro 18lbs and the 4506 is rated at 14lbs. I think Wolff has been selling the wrong spring for the 4506. I think they took the 200710000 part number which is for the lighter loads and made it standard. I have also seen S&W print this as the standard recoil spring as a misprint.

 

[ColColt]

I have four recoils springs, #20161 that are right at 8 1/4" long that I bought from Wolff a few years back. Your post got me curious and I checked them out. However, I also ordered a Pistol Service Pack, as they call it, for the 4506 and it came with all the needed springs for the 645, 745, 4506, 4526 and 4546 but, the recoil spring in that package is not the 8 1/4" that came in the #20161 package. It's more like 6 1/2" one you spoke of. I never noticed it until you mentioned it and those springs are definitely different.

The stock number on that Service Pack is 69302.

 

[peh_7]

3rd Gen Guide Rods

Having a number of 1st Gen pistols I got into 3rd Gen models because I wanted a strong 10mm other than a Glock, and had heard there were too many problems with 1911s in 10mm. Anyway, I now have a 1006 and a 4506. The part I think may be a problem is the guide rod since I can't locate either a replacement or after market version for the 5" models (Gun Parts sent me one but it was apparently for one of the shorter models so I sent it back).

Anyway, I have now come up with a design for one made of stainless steel very similar to the version I saw on another post. (http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...s/272532-5906-recoil-spring-guide-midway.html). I have used it in both pistols and it works great. I also assume if it was shortened the design could be used in the shorter models.

I could make more on a limited basis (turned on a manual lathe, one at a time) and was wondering if there would be any interest. Since I would need to purchase materials, and it takes a considerable amount of time to machine each one, I would need to get 50 to 60 dollars to make it worth my while.

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[18DAI]

Welcome to the forum peh_7 !!

A 4506 guide rod would be most welcome. I have seen three posts looking for one over the last year. $50 to $60 would not be an unreasonable price to pay for one based on the MSRP of what parts I see for sale on websites and Ebay.

Please keep us advised here should you begin this project. Regards 18DAI

 

[Fastbolt]

A 4506 guide rod would be most welcome.

Are you in need of a 4506 guide rod assembly?

 

[18DAI]

No Fastbolt, not me. Some other members here have evidently been searching for 4506/645 guide rods with no luck. PM sent. Best regards, 18DAI

 

[Mossy Pops]

I recently added a 4553TSW to my collection of 3rd gen guns. I didn't know at the time that it used a nested pair of recoil springs that are now unavailable. It shoots fine but I would like to replace the recoil springs at some point. Wolff does not sell these. I suppose I could use the one they do sell for the 4516 in a pinch but would rather not. I called Wolff to ask whether they had any plans to expand spring support for the TSW lines or for 3rd gen guns in general and was told no. The lady I spoke to was a little testy on the phone. Maybe they are getting calls from us or maybe she was just having a bad day. Either way, I didn't get the impression that Wolff was real committed to the cause of keeping our pistols running. The lady didn't ask, but I for one would be willing to pay a premium for these springs. I definitely get the impression that a lot of other 3rd gen shooters would also pay for these increasingly hard to get items. Hope some enterprising spring maker, big or small, responds.

6/3/2014 - I called S&W customer service thinking they might have a set of the recoil springs. They didn't but the rep I talked to was quite adamant that they would be building and stocking 3rd gen parts down the road. As stated on another post, they are using all available resources to build and fulfill orders for the new stuff. It might be 18 months or longer though. The guy said he'd been there since 77 and that he loved the 3rd gens too. I believe him when he says they will be supported again down the road.

 

[ahern25]

I have four recoils springs, #20161 that are right at 8 1/4" long that I bought from Wolff a few years back. Your post got me curious and I checked them out. However, I also ordered a Pistol Service Pack, as they call it, for the 4506 and it came with all the needed springs for the 645, 745, 4506, 4526 and 4546 but, the recoil spring in that package is not the 8 1/4" that came in the #20161 package. It's more like 6 1/2" one you spoke of. I never noticed it until you mentioned it and those springs are definitely different.

The stock number on that Service Pack is 69302.

When I bought my 4506 it had a spring that must of came from a pen. So I called S&W and they sent me a new one on the package it had 201610000 markings. It was around 8 1/4 inches and a pain to install. It worked great and felt like it belonged to the gun. I then ordered the service pak from Wolff and had all the springs changed out. When I first shot it again it felt like the slide was battering the frame and just felt different. I took it apart and noticed that the recoil spring felt easy to install. So I compared it to the one sent from S&W and that's when I saw the difference in length. I switched back and forth between the tow springs and noticed that the wolff spring seemed weaker. If I didn't get the original one from smith I don't think I would have even noticed. I would have just thought I had the right spring in it. Like I said I emailed wolff and they have not replied with their findings. If anyone knows someone at Wolff maybe they can relay this message to them. I fell they are selling the wrong spring and I just don't want people to wear out a good 4506 especially when S&W is not making parts anymore. We need to make sure these guns last and don't get more battered then they need to be. Us 3rd gen folks need to stick together lol.

 

[Comrad]

So what kind of round count does it take to wear out the consumable parts? I'm an infrequent shooter but would like to be able to shoot this gun for years to come without fear of wearing it out.

 

[Poohgyrr]

We should be fine on springs for our 3rd Gen 9mm's here at home. These simply are too good not to have and use. Far as the P series Sigs, they simply don't shoot as well for me.

Heh, I'd go Ruger before Sig.

If I ever find a Commander length 45xx locally I'll likely buy it. They are that good.

 

[18DAI]

Comrad, I've got several 45XX series guns with over 5000 rounds a piece through them. No broken parts. No malfunctions at all for that matter.

Having owned dozens of 3rd gen guns I've not broken a trigger play spring either........yet. I have adjusted quite a few to eliminate the click.

I have a 910 "value line" pistol. Before I lost my handgun log book while going through a divorce and subsequent move, it had over 19,000 rounds through it. Again, no broken parts. It did develope a crack in the frame. Still safe to use according to two gunsmiths. And I used it again this weekend to teach another new shooter.

My point is, that 910 is a "value line" pistol. Not a TSW or even a "standard" production 3rd gen. So.......if the value line guns have the quality of build and service life to go 20,000 rounds - with no parts breakage..............

Buy them, shoot them, love them! If you can afford to shoot them enough to break something or wear one out, then you are wealthy enough to buy a replacement for it too. Like Dorito's, they made a bunch. Unlike Dorito's, they won't make more. Sad. Regards 18DAI

 

[1775usmarine]

Figured look at used 4506 mags on ebay and seen them go up by 20 bucks. Sure glad I got my 10 mags when they were cheap. I would love to find a spare decent barrel for just in case esp if I plan on passing down to the next generation of shooters.