I have a stainless captured guide rod in my SD9. I put it there because that's the way I wanted it. I could find nothing about the original plastic one that I could criticize except that it just wasn't what I wanted. I'm sure that if S&W engineers thought that the SD needed a steel rod, they would have given it one. But, to me, there is a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that there is a steel one in my gun. No other reason is needed.
plastic guide rod replacement
- Thread starter ruthless robbie
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ruthless robbie
Member
Quality: the standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something.
I would say Glock is of very high quality. Their reputation has been built upon it.
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photoman
Member
I've owned Glocks for decades. They are reliable, reasonably priced, service grade weapons. High quality? Not really. But then again, high quality comes with a price. Wilson 1911's are two to three times the cost of a Glock (for example).
MOONDAWG
US Veteran
I've owned GLOCKS since 1987 in 9mm, .40 & .45 calibers none of which have had plastic guide rod failures.
The same holds true for a the S&W SD9VE's I have which have surpassed the 3,000 round mark without a hic-up.
But that's me; if one feels more confident in their carry piece by utilizing a stainless steel guide rod, then go in peace.
The same holds true for a the S&W SD9VE's I have which have surpassed the 3,000 round mark without a hic-up.
But that's me; if one feels more confident in their carry piece by utilizing a stainless steel guide rod, then go in peace.
OP
ruthless robbie
Member
I think you're mistaking quality with luxury.....
I don't believe that a BMW or Cadillac can compete mile for mile with a Honda......
Just like I don't think a Kimber, Sig or a custom make can compete shot for shot with a Glock.....
.
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OP
ruthless robbie
Member
I believe you, but in hind sight, plastic guide rods have been know to break, and by little research on the web it's easy to see that many people have experienced broken plastic guide rods.
Chances are mine would last 10,000 rounds even though it's bending and it's brand new. But, I just don't want to chance it so I feel safer knowing I have a stainless guide rod in its place.
Coop de Ville
Member
This thread has derped.
Hopefully the OP has come to a decision.
Hopefully the OP has come to a decision.
I just wanted to clarify something: if you lose the retaining screw at the end of a captured guide rod setup, the gun does not become inoperable at all. In fact, it will continue to function just the same. The function of the retaining screw at the end of the guide rod is to retain the recoil spring during take down, so that it's easier to assemble (and so that the chances of the guide rod rocketing across the room when you take it down are eliminated). If you examine closely the retaining screw at the end of the guide rod, once the gun is assembled, you'll see that the retaining screw doesn't contact the spring at all. The end of the spring rests against the back of the front slide lug. You can completely remove the retaining screw and leave it off; the only compromise is you have to be more careful at take down and reassembly will be slightly more difficult.
Both plastic and metal can fail sometimes plastic is better as if there is any flaw in the metal it will break at that point. With plastic the stress will be absorbed and distributed evenly more or less. Watch a slow motion vid of any poly gun the frame whips up and down with every shot.
ruthless_robie, what rate spring did you go with? I wouldn't use a heavier spring unless you're shooting hot ammo all the time. The heavier the spring, the slower the slide moves rearward, and the more likely it is that you'll get failures to eject. If you commonly shoot 115 gr, (for 9mm) target ammo, I'd use the stock spring or even lighter. I'd only use the heavier spring if you're always shooting 147 gr or +P loads.
Either way, be sure to thoroughly test the gun with the ammo you will carry or keep loaded in it to ensure that it's "tuned" right.
I have a CZ P-09 that came from the factory with an 18 pound spring and I have a 13 pound spring in it now. Ejection patterns are improved with the 115 gr target ammo I shoot and I'm back on target quicker as well. Some guys go as low as 11 pound springs, but I'm happy with the 13 pounder.
Either way, be sure to thoroughly test the gun with the ammo you will carry or keep loaded in it to ensure that it's "tuned" right.
I have a CZ P-09 that came from the factory with an 18 pound spring and I have a 13 pound spring in it now. Ejection patterns are improved with the 115 gr target ammo I shoot and I'm back on target quicker as well. Some guys go as low as 11 pound springs, but I'm happy with the 13 pounder.
kakarote9130
Member
My observation of this post is as follows
Plastic guide rods bend. This is true. Metal guide rods don't bend. This could be true. Just remember that anything man made WILL fail at some
Point. Wether it be a guide rod , an engine bolt, or a space shuttle.if man made it, at some point it will fail.
Now if buying a metal guide rod makes you feel better, then do it! If it helps you shoot better, and that's what your looking for, then buy it.
Just remember that because something cost more, does not mean it's higher quality or more reliable.A Lamborghini Diablo is a high dollar car. Yet, a ford fusion ( which is a lot slower) is better quality and more reliable. Bottom line is, Enjoy what you have. And if upgrading it makes you happy then do it.
Nuff said.
Plastic guide rods bend. This is true. Metal guide rods don't bend. This could be true. Just remember that anything man made WILL fail at some
Point. Wether it be a guide rod , an engine bolt, or a space shuttle.if man made it, at some point it will fail.
Now if buying a metal guide rod makes you feel better, then do it! If it helps you shoot better, and that's what your looking for, then buy it.
Just remember that because something cost more, does not mean it's higher quality or more reliable.A Lamborghini Diablo is a high dollar car. Yet, a ford fusion ( which is a lot slower) is better quality and more reliable. Bottom line is, Enjoy what you have. And if upgrading it makes you happy then do it.
Nuff said.
Florida J Frame
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The full size Beretta, both military and civilian, are equipped with plastic guide rods from the factory. I haven't heard of any issues even though a metal rod is available as a replacement part for those who want one. This is one of the most tested guns on the market.
It depends on the model. My CZ P-09 came with a full steel guide rod assembly.
OP
ruthless robbie
Member
You had me until you paired the words Ford Fusion with quality and reliable in the same sentence. hahaha
Well, this whole thread leaves me confused. How do we know the plastic guide rod bends? Have we seen it bend during firing?
Do we know for sure that a metal guide rod tends to break a polymer frame?
With respect to price and quality I drive an SL500 (bought used). My wife drives an ML320. Both are expensive cars but very prone to failure and costly to repair. Before the SL500 I went through 4 new Corvettes. Yes, I did, but I'm 82 years old so I did indeed own 4 Corvettes. Less expensive than the SL500 but none of them had the continuing, and expensive, problems the MB's have.
Price doesn't guaranty reliability.
Anyhow, is there a firm answer to the guide rod question for the SD9VE?
Do we know for sure that a metal guide rod tends to break a polymer frame?
With respect to price and quality I drive an SL500 (bought used). My wife drives an ML320. Both are expensive cars but very prone to failure and costly to repair. Before the SL500 I went through 4 new Corvettes. Yes, I did, but I'm 82 years old so I did indeed own 4 Corvettes. Less expensive than the SL500 but none of them had the continuing, and expensive, problems the MB's have.
Price doesn't guaranty reliability.
Anyhow, is there a firm answer to the guide rod question for the SD9VE?
X-ray anybody? I worked one summer in Long Beach Naval Shipyard and one of my jobs was to X-ray welds on ships using a portable X-ray unit. In between jobs we X-rayed things for fun because we could adjust the voltage to match the job. I used to have an X-ray of my watch but it's long gone.
Anyhow, I wonder whether anyone on this list has the means to X-ray an SD VE gun to see exactly how the parts lay out when it is assembled and in various positions? I would like to know exactly where the end of the guide rod is when the slide is open and when it is closed, and would like to see the position of the striker and it's links when the gun is in various conditions.
I know it can be done but it might take several shots with different exposures and voltages to get all the details. The plastic parts are relatively transparent to X-rays. The metal parts would require higher voltages and longer exposures. Not sure that modern X-ray systems, mostly all digital, have such controls, but if someone has the ability to get some shots it would probably help all of us and cover several questions that we have asked.
Anyhow, I wonder whether anyone on this list has the means to X-ray an SD VE gun to see exactly how the parts lay out when it is assembled and in various positions? I would like to know exactly where the end of the guide rod is when the slide is open and when it is closed, and would like to see the position of the striker and it's links when the gun is in various conditions.
I know it can be done but it might take several shots with different exposures and voltages to get all the details. The plastic parts are relatively transparent to X-rays. The metal parts would require higher voltages and longer exposures. Not sure that modern X-ray systems, mostly all digital, have such controls, but if someone has the ability to get some shots it would probably help all of us and cover several questions that we have asked.
brchambersjr
US Veteran
If you remove your slide from your frame and take out the recoil spring and barrel, take the spring assembly and lay it in the frame channel with the back end against the U shaped area that it sits in. Then take the barrel and hold the little hook on the bottom of the lug against the take down lever. When you hold the barrel level with the frame you can see a 1/16 to 1/8 inch gap between the guide rod end and barrel lug. Slowly slide the barrel rearward and the lug will engage the locking cam and be forced downward and out of battery ultimately widening that gap. Of course the spring would be compressed when the slide is on but this will just help explain where the guide rod end makes contact during the firing cycle.
One way to see where the striker lug rests when the slide is racked is to remove the slide from the frame and just sit it on top of the frame rails. It will create a gap enough to see in to and when you align the slide to the frame as it would be in battery you can see that the striker is held approximately half way pulled back by the sear.
These are not as extravagant as an X-ray but you can kind of tell how things function.
Bill
One way to see where the striker lug rests when the slide is racked is to remove the slide from the frame and just sit it on top of the frame rails. It will create a gap enough to see in to and when you align the slide to the frame as it would be in battery you can see that the striker is held approximately half way pulled back by the sear.
These are not as extravagant as an X-ray but you can kind of tell how things function.
Bill
Bill - I have done a lot of such comparisons trying to see just where things sit in battery and when open. The main conclusion I reached is that the takedown lever/bar takes a serious beating when the gun is fired. It takes loads in both directions.
I saw another post somewhere that said the gun had failed at the takedown lever/bar point. I believe it.
I saw another post somewhere that said the gun had failed at the takedown lever/bar point. I believe it.
