Confused: Are S&W revolver barrels supposed to be canted?
- Thread starter Gryff
- Start date
Oddly enough, I have heard the same thing from a gunsmith I know and respect, as well as trust to work on my S&Ws. He was an authorized repair center back in the day when they had such things. His explanation was that the gun was subject to torsional forces caused but the weight of the bullet resisting the the impetus to spin as it entered the rifling. Now, I don't know if he was particularly well trained in BS, but he did spend six weeks at the factory to become a warranty service center, and he's been working on all manner of firearms for about 50 years.
Take it for what it's worth; I know I want to see things lined up TDC. But...
The only other experience I can relate is having sent a fixed sight 681 in that shot to the left to be corrected. They fixed it by clocking the barrel a smidge to the left.
Shoots fine now
Take it for what it's worth; I know I want to see things lined up TDC. But...
The only other experience I can relate is having sent a fixed sight 681 in that shot to the left to be corrected. They fixed it by clocking the barrel a smidge to the left.
Shoots fine now
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Lt.cap'nadmiral jeeves
Member
Are you positive he wasn't pulling your chain? Clocking the barrel a little bit one way or another should not change the forces at play between the bullet and barrel. If the rifling is cut correct and the throat is centered, spinning the barrel would change nothing but the sight picture.
No doubt, he could have been BSing- he's spent his life at a bench or behind a gun counter... but consider the physics involved.
The gun is trying to rotate around the centerline of the barrel, and you are holding it away from the centerline. Think of the way that the front sights on many hard-kicking revolvers appear to be "tall" when looking at the alignment between F/R sights and the barrel to compensate for the muzzle rising. There is going to be some force (reaction) exerted on the gun by the bullet traversing the bore, and that force is going to be trying to change the attitude of the gun in x, y, and z axises.
So, what happens when the gun twists in reaction to the bullet hitting the rifling? Which way does it go with a right hand twist?
The gun is trying to rotate around the centerline of the barrel, and you are holding it away from the centerline. Think of the way that the front sights on many hard-kicking revolvers appear to be "tall" when looking at the alignment between F/R sights and the barrel to compensate for the muzzle rising. There is going to be some force (reaction) exerted on the gun by the bullet traversing the bore, and that force is going to be trying to change the attitude of the gun in x, y, and z axises.
So, what happens when the gun twists in reaction to the bullet hitting the rifling? Which way does it go with a right hand twist?
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il Padrino
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Some of the new guns are being made to be shot gangasta style with the gun held sideways. Tell them you want a regular gun that was made correctly to be shot in a normal with sights up position.
Why do I read these threads...... some of the responses are just unbelievable..
some of the responses are just unbelievable..Rpg
Member
Of course they're designed that way!!
It's much too complicated for me to explain ....... Or understand!
Trust S&W !!
It's much too complicated for me to explain ....... Or understand!
Trust S&W !!
Lt.cap'nadmiral jeeves
Member
I think we're on the same page, we just misunderstood each other.
Canted sights from the factory most likely meant the gun was torqued to spec and the sights didn't end up being top dead center. I would bet money they aren't going to loosen the barrel so the sights line up. The only other option is spin the barrel in a lathe and remove some steel so it can be rotated some more.
Canted sights from the factory most likely meant the gun was torqued to spec and the sights didn't end up being top dead center. I would bet money they aren't going to loosen the barrel so the sights line up. The only other option is spin the barrel in a lathe and remove some steel so it can be rotated some more.
Edmo
US Veteran
My 640-1 Pro Series came direct from S&W with a tweaked barrel-to-frame alignment...
I sent it back and they got it a little closer to straight, but not exact...
Edmo
I sent it back and they got it a little closer to straight, but not exact...
Edmo
My 640-1 Pro Series came direct from S&W with a tweaked barrel-to-frame alignment...
I sent it back and they got it a little closer to straight, but not exact...
Edmo
But, how does it shoot?
Why do I read these threads......
It's called humor.
ontargetagain
Member
This seems to be a very complicated and risky process to correct from some of the info I am reading from the Jerry Kuhnhausen shop manual.
Once the barrel is tight and properly torqued to the shoulder there is the possibility when trying to 'un-torque' and rotate that the frame could stress/crack.
It is not doubt a very involved process to be done correctly. Out of curiosity I wonder what your forcing cone gap is? If the barrel is backed out it will open the gap up unless there is a shim modification to the cylinder/yoke set up if I am thinking this through correctly?
At any point I might find a very slight deviation from exactly 12 position acceptable but not if the sight can't be properly compensated for it with.
Perhaps the rear sight blade needs to be shimmed up on right corner to artificially square things up.............sorry just kidding a little here
I do find your story very frustrating in that a seasoned S&W gunsmith would give you the initial response that he did. I would find the truth with a proper explanation and discussion of remedy a whole lot more professional of them..
Best of luck in this adventure, I do that you do find satisfaction in the outcome...
Karl
Once the barrel is tight and properly torqued to the shoulder there is the possibility when trying to 'un-torque' and rotate that the frame could stress/crack.
It is not doubt a very involved process to be done correctly. Out of curiosity I wonder what your forcing cone gap is? If the barrel is backed out it will open the gap up unless there is a shim modification to the cylinder/yoke set up if I am thinking this through correctly?
At any point I might find a very slight deviation from exactly 12 position acceptable but not if the sight can't be properly compensated for it with.
Perhaps the rear sight blade needs to be shimmed up on right corner to artificially square things up.............sorry just kidding a little here
I do find your story very frustrating in that a seasoned S&W gunsmith would give you the initial response that he did. I would find the truth with a proper explanation and discussion of remedy a whole lot more professional of them..
Best of luck in this adventure, I do that you do find satisfaction in the outcome...
Karl
Edmo
US Veteran
It seems to go bang every time I pull the trigger... I hold it on one end and bullets come out of the other...
As far as how accurate is the gun? It prints to the right for me. Below is a target shot at 7 yards with both 38 Special WWB and some Remington 357 Magnum fodder. This is typical of how it groups and where the point of impact vs point of aim is located.
Recoil is very manageable with both standard 38 Specials and +Ps, but with full power 357 Magnum rounds it is a bit zippy.
I've debated on sending it back to S&W for a second time to see if they can actually straighten the barrel tweak to something closer than "almost". If the barrel were screwed in straight it would likely bring the sights and point of impact together.
However, in reality it hasn't been that pressing of an issue. This is a revolver that doesn't get carried as often as my plastic auto guns or my 642.
Edmo
Given the varied responses, your post doesn't make clear which ones you find unbelievable. Could you be more specific?Why do I read these threads......
Does it really matter.... but I will tell you, I just find these microscopic barrel location threads to be totally boring and unnecessary. As many have said, if it shoots straight, shoot it. It boils down to a gun that was fine before someone stumbled across a thread about it and suddenly the gun is a ***...
silentflyer
Member
When you can't adjust the sight enough to correct the sight picture, there is a problem. Not questioning your shooting, but you might try to locate a Ransom machine rest and shoot a group on paper and return it with the gun. It's hard to argue with a group from a gun with no human factor to dispute. And they wonder why we like older guns..
Rick_A
Member
I have yet to see this phenomenon.
Of course, YMMV.
I would have asked for a test target.
Of course, YMMV.
I would have asked for a test target.
A 66-2 is 30 years old.
