Hand loading your self defense ammo?

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I have been wondering about hand loading self-defense ammo. The common wisdom is to make sure your S.D. ammo is reliable in your carry gun and to practice with it. Well with the price of factory S.D. ammo this can get pretty expensive so it would seem hand loading makes sense. I have read threads regarding the legal side of not loading your on ammo for S.D. and that’s a debate for another thread.

For this thread I want do know how you would go about loading and testing your own S.D. ammo.

Some questions that I have are:
1. Would you try to copy a factory load as closely as possible?
2. Would you use new brass vs previously fired?
3. Would you hand weigh each charge to ensure consistency?
4. How many rounds would you test before feeling comfortable carrying it?
5. Would you pick a specific powder?
6. Any other thoughts or ideas?

Or is this just a really bad idea and not worthy of discussion?
 
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Yes, I load my own SD ammo.

Some questions that I have are:
1. Would you try to copy a factory load as closely as possible?

The only thing I copy is the bullet used by the local police, in my case the XTP. If/when asked, that's my one and only reason. I figure they have done all the thinking and balanced pros and cons. If they haven't, I'm in good company lol. Velocity is chrono'd and chosen as it is for all other loads, ie, based on accuracy with me on the trigger. With 380 Auto, though, I would prefer a hotter load over a small gain in accuracy.

2. Would you use new brass vs previously fired?

Relatively young, fine brass. Doesn't need to be new, just need to have known its complete history.

3. Would you hand weigh each charge to ensure consistency?

Yes, for the ammo in my mags. ("Yes" also meaning loading on a single stage) That's a level of care that makes me feel comfortable that each round will fire and actually exit the barrel :). But I wouldn't hesitate to throw the powder if I were gonna shoot a thousand of them. (This also meaning loading them on a progressive.)

4. How many rounds would you test before feeling comfortable carrying it?

After load development, not many if any would be required. But I don't consider a load developed until it has produced the results I want a few different trips to the range. Probably no more than 100 all told.

5. Would you pick a specific powder?

Don't know quite how to answer this lol. So let me just say I have already chosen powders for all my calibers, so I know them and feel comfortable with them.

6. Any other thoughts or ideas?

Yes. If you have any doubts about your ammo, stick to factory. You need to be confident once that firearm is in your hands. What *I* do isn't quite as important as what *you* feel *you* must do.

Or is this just a really bad idea and not worthy of discussion?

I suppose I've indicated my answer to this :)
 
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Well put Twoboxer, Thanks! I do have as box of 230gr. XTP's I think I'll load up and try at the range for starters.
 
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For my 9mm Ruger P95 I use only OTC rounds for it: 124gr Federal RSN jacketed for TP and 124gr JHP Federal Hydro Shoks for SD...

That said... :rolleyes:

If all I can get too is my 500, it's loaded with 350gr Hornady XTP JHP bullets loaded to produce about 1100fps which will get the job done IF NEEDED!!!!

I've tested my loads at the range and, short of chronographing them, they have proved to be a reliable, controllable round.

Attention!!!!!! If anyone has a problem with my using my 500 for SD, Please... Keep your opinions to yourself and don't trash up the OP's thread with why it's a bad choice to use for SD purposes!! I will report your post as what you're saying will add nothing to answer the OP's original post....

My choice of what I defend myself with is MY choice not yours!!! So leave this sleeping dog alone and Thanks for your restraint!! :cool:
 
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Just thinking theoretically:

I would think you'd want to do some "kind of rough" testing, such as:
Fire it pointing straight up, or close to it, if possible.
Fire it pointing straight down, or close to it, if possible.
Fire it after the gun/ammo have been in sub-freezing temps for a long time.
Fire it after the gun/ammo have been locked in your car on a summer day for a long time.

We tend to test our ammo (and practice our skills) in pretty pristine environments. You'd hate to have to use it, say, in -10 degree weather and have to learn at that point whether those loads (and the gun) can handle 10 below.

OR

P.S.: I guess this applies just as much to factory ammo as reloads.
 
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This is a great way to start a fight.
But, let's play anyhow.
1) No, I don't reload to copy factory ammo. Why would I start here?
2) the brass need only be reasonably low mileage.
3) if you are compelled to hand weigh each charge, you have probably chosen your sd load poorly. This load is the same as your high volume range load for your carry gun. You will know it like a mistress.
4) reliability it's almost all I shoot from that particular gun. I might adopt it at the 50 to 100 mark, but it never really leaves the evaluation state.
5) specific powder. Kinda. I will evaluate a few powders out of a desired range of burn rates, as I am looking for the result to be within a range of energy yield. Why bother with something that can't deliver it.
6) other stuff .... shoot things with the load. Know what it can and can't do against car doors, critters, engine blocks, drywall, glass, wood, wedding cake, and anything else that you can give a heavy metal injection to without going to jail. You will rather know today when it will fail, than find out when you need it.
 
Just thinking theoretically:

I would think you'd want to do some "kind of rough" testing, such as:
Fire it pointing straight up, or close to it, if possible.
Fire it pointing straight down, or close to it, if possible.
Fire it after the gun/ammo have been in sub-freezing temps for a long time.
Fire it after the gun/ammo have been locked in your car on a summer day for a long time.

We tend to test our ammo (and practice our skills) in pretty pristine environments. You'd hate to have to use it, say, in -10 degree weather and have to learn at that point whether those loads (and the gun) can handle 10 below.

OR

P.S.: I guess this applies just as much to factory ammo as reloads.
Hadn't considered these points. Another good reason to test more ammo!
 
This is a great way to start a fight.
But, let's play anyhow.

6) other stuff .... shoot things with the load. Know what it can and can't do against car doors, critters, engine blocks, drywall, glass, wood, wedding cake, and anything else that you can give a heavy metal injection to without going to jail. You will rather know today when it will fail, than find out when you need it.

Well, certainly not trying to start a fight ;) just had this nagging question rattling round in the nogg'n.


venomballistics, your a genius! Now I know what to do with that piece of wedding cake that's been in our freezer for 31 years. :D
 
My carry load is a high energy 40 caliber Speer Gold Dot featuring the 165 grain bullet loaded to 1150 fps per Speer's specifications. As might be expected this particular load has a bit of a "bark" to it and a distinctly snappy recoil.

Due to the high potential of this being a flinch builder and distinctly limited availability I hand load an exact ballistic match using a 165 grain Extreme heavy plate HP using Hodgdon Longshot. Note, by exact I mean that both the Speer and my hand load actually clock at average of 1150 fps from my Sig P229 with my chronograph. I'll also note that the flash profile and muzzle blast are identical in a side by side comparison.

And yeah, my hand load is also a Flinch Builder, which is why I only shoot a maximum of 50 rounds of these hot loads at a range session. However it does allow me to practice with what I carry without incurring a 1 dollar per round cost. As for the potential of differing functional reliability between the two bullets, my carry pistol is a Sig Sauer P239 with a history of NEVER failing in over 4000 rounds fired and about 10 boxes were those Speer Gold Dots.

I'll also admit that I've considered purchasing some 165 grain Gold Dots and loading my own. Fact is that if I had saved the nickel cases from my prior shooting of this ammunition there wouldn't be any way a Court could know I had used hand loads unless I told the police. Having seen the multitude of videos showing why you don't try and "talk" your way out of charges resulting from a shooting that won't happen, I'll let my lawyer do the talking.
 
I weigh every charge anyway. I like my hands and my guns too much to risk it. Never been off by more than a couple of grains here and there, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

And I don't see how anybody would even know if I used hand loads (which I don't for SD) as long as all the brass was the same.
 
This is a great way to start a fight.
But, let's play anyhow.
1) No, I don't reload to copy factory ammo. Why would I start here?
2) the brass need only be reasonably low mileage.
3) if you are compelled to hand weigh each charge, you have probably chosen your sd load poorly. This load is the same as your high volume range load for your carry gun. You will know it like a mistress.
4) reliability it's almost all I shoot from that particular gun. I might adopt it at the 50 to 100 mark, but it never really leaves the evaluation state.
5) specific powder. Kinda. I will evaluate a few powders out of a desired range of burn rates, as I am looking for the result to be within a range of energy yield. Why bother with something that can't deliver it.
6) other stuff .... shoot things with the load. Know what it can and can't do against car doors, critters, engine blocks, drywall, glass, wood, wedding cake, and anything else that you can give a heavy metal injection to without going to jail. You will rather know today when it will fail, than find out when you need it.

++1 on these points. I would add that on point 4, I consider a minimum of 100 rounds thru an auto, to confirm feeding, extraction and ejection. On my revolvers, I mark one round, then load and fire a full cylinder except for the marked round. Keep that same marked round in, load and fire another cylinder full. If the recoil hasn't made my crimp jump on the marked round(and other conditions such as accuracy, velocity, etc are good), then I"m GTG with that load.
 
Attention!!!!!! If anyone has a problem with my using my 500 for SD, Please... Keep your opinions to yourself and don't trash up the OP's thread with why it's a bad choice to use for SD purposes!! I will report your post as what you're saying will add nothing to answer the OP's original post....

Relax, that would be an excellent choice!!! I'd hate to put my catchers mitt on and have you throw a couple of them my way.

I like heavy bullets/hp's and 1100fps myself. Some home swaged 265gr jacketed hp's for the 44mag shot into bundles of wet newspaper @ 25yds.



As far as loading my own sd ammo???? I have 15+ hp molds and swage my own jacketed hp bullets for 5 different rifle and pistol calibers.
 
As a general rule, I would not. I get a chuckle from guys thinking they can make better ammo than the manuf. You only need to run one full mag of each carry mag to determine your guns reliability with that ammo. If there is an issue, it's showing up early not late.
The other reason to not load your own, in general, is you aren't getting the best bullets available. The HST is currently the darling carry round, with good reason. It's not available to the handloade as a rule. I can afford a 50rd box to verify functioning & another 50rd box for carry. That should last me at least 2-3yrs & that is rotating ammo annually.
Where I do consider reloading my own is something like the 44mag, where you have few options. If I am toting a 44mag into the woods, when I hit town, it's nice to drop a speed loader of midrange 250gr lhp into the cyl & go. This would apply to something like the 500 as well. A 330gr soft lead hp @ 1000fps would be pretty easy to shoot in a 4" 500.
 
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If you were to have to use your ammo is such a circumstance the notion of you using reloads would never arise in my opinion unless you used some unusual type of cast lead bullet....say a double end wadcutter. Which is really what I prefer.
 
I have been wondering about hand loading self-defense ammo. The common wisdom is to make sure your S.D. ammo is reliable in your carry gun and to practice with it. Well with the price of factory S.D. ammo this can get pretty expensive so it would seem hand loading makes sense. I have read threads regarding the legal side of not loading your on ammo for S.D. and that’s a debate for another thread.

For this thread I want do know how you would go about loading and testing your own S.D. ammo.

Some questions that I have are:[/
QUOTE]


1. Would you try to copy a factory load as closely as possible?The key issue is to ensure the velocity achieved by the hollow point bullet is within the comparatively narrow range of velocity that will allow it fully expand and achieve adequate penetration. If the velocity is too high, it will over expand or expand too soon and under penetrate. If the velocity is too low, the bullet may under expand or not expand at all and over penetrate.

Consequently you need to know the velocity envelope for the bullet.

You also need to know the actual velocity of your load in your handgun. But that's true with any self defense load, and the ability to tailor the velocity is one of the advantages of hand loading your own.

2. Would you use new brass vs previously fired?There is no significant technical difference between new brass and once fired brass. Consequently I use either new brass or clean and inspected known by me to be once fired brass. Practically speaking this means I load into new brass, then when I expend that carry ammo down range after carrying it for 2-3 months, I recycle that brass once by reloading it as self defense ammo, then drop it in the regular reload pile after it is once again expended.

3. Would you hand weigh each charge to ensure consistency? I do, but depending on the powder and measure used it's usually over kill. In practice, it means verifying the exact charge weight in each round. But it's worth my time as I only load 100 rounds of SD ammo at a time compared to 500-1000 rounds at a time on my Dillon, and it provides extra piece of mind with minimal extra time invested.


4. How many rounds would you test before feeling comfortable carrying it?The answer is the same regardless of whether you use factory ammo or hand loaded ammo.

For a semi-auto I regard 200 rounds as the minimum, and that assumes 100% reliability with the pistol, magazines and ammo combined. The main things I am looking for are:

a) consistent velocity (an SD about 15-18 fps or less).
b) velocity in the required range
c) no evidence of set back after repeated chambering
d) 100% reliability in the pistol and in each magazine to be carried.

For a revolver I'd consider as few as 50 rounds. They main things I look for in a revolver are:

a) consistent velocity (an SD about 15-18 fps or less).
b) velocity in the required range
c) no evidence of bullets backing out under recoil (which can prevent cylinder rotation)
d) 100% reliability in ignition and in ejection from the cylinder with no "stickiness".
e) an absence of unburnt powder grains, which can lodge under the ejector and prevent the cylinder from closing on a re-load.

5. Would you pick a specific powder?
Not a specific powder, but I insist that the powder used meet certain requirements:

a) achieve the required velocity and SD with the load in the specific barrel length and within the maximum pressure limits.
b) not display unburned powder grains in a revolver.
c) accurate measuring and no potential for powder bridging - which could cause a squib load.

6. Any other thoughts or ideas?You want 100% ignition reliability and that means taking care to ensure there is no contact with the primers and any oil, including skin oil.

You will want to carefully visually inspect each round, and you'll want to use a chamber gauge and ensure the round both drops in the gauge and drops out freely with no pressure needed in either direction.

Or is this just a really bad idea and not worthy of discussion?Massad Ayoob provide an example of the forensic issues that can occur, and people often quote that as an example of why you don't want to hand load self defense ammo - but it's a mis-application of what he said.

In Ayoob's example, a woman shot her self with her husband's gun and hand loads. Unfortunately he was a hand loader and had several types of ammo available for that handgun. The wife shot herself with a very light target load, but the forensic analysis was done on a much heavier load, with the result that they felt the lack of powder stippling on the body suggested a greater shooting distance that precluded her from shooting herself, and thus the husband became a suspect, was charged and had to hire his own ballistics experts (including Ayoob) to eventually clear himself.

This gets used as an example, of why you should not hand load your own self defense ammo, as there is no known data base of factory loads with which to compare the forensic evidence with your story.

That is however flawed as the forensic task in a self defense shoot is not a case of trying to match a gunshot wound to an unknown assailant based on ammo and firearm found on the assailant later. Rather it is a case of just having to match your ammo with the forensic evidence at the scene to ensure your story matches the forensics.

In this case, what you need is to ensure your self defense ammo is stored separately from any other ammo (hand loaded or factory) and is clearly marked as your self defense load. In effect, the police can then use this clearly marked ammo to test against the forensics from the scene to verify that your story hold water.

As such Ayoob's example isn't advice not to use hand loaded self defense ammo,it's just a caution that as ammo with out an existing data base, additional testing may be needed, and that you need to ensure your self defense loads are segregated and clearly marked - and that's sound advice even with factory self defense ammo. For example, even if you use factory .357 Magnum ammo, if you store it with your other .357 factory ammo or hand loads, the potential exits for the police to confuse head stamps and impound the wrong ammo for testing, which may lead to inconsistencies in the forensic investigation.
 
There has to be one old fogey, and I am he.
I handload .38 Special.
I load 158 gr lrn, 158 gr lswc, 195 gr lrn, 170 gr lswc, 148 gr wc (several varieties.)
under the 158s I load 4.3 grs Unique.
under the 195 I load 3.6 grs Unique
under the 170 I load 4.1 grs Unique
under the wadcutters I load 3.3 grs of Unique.
None of them are "world changing".
I used to hot rod but I've given it up. I can't equal a .30-30 Winchester or a .30-40 Krag out of a handgun and I'm not going to try.
If I carry, it is one of the above rounds.
For SD I prefer the 16 gauge (slugs) Auto 5 or the .30-30.
 
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As many answers to this question as there are people with opinions.

As for me, some of my SD ammo is my own. I don't load 380 so in that gun I carry pricey high performance factory loads. Practice with cheaper hard ball.

Using own loads MAY be an issue following a shooting. It is defensible but a prosecutor or civil attorney would try to paint you as a crazed Rambo wannabe. If I lived in an area that was anti-gun I would likely stick with factory fodder.
 
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