Rethinking some carry decisions

[CoMF]

I don't see a walking stick doing much good against multiple dogs - one, perhaps...but I would still prefer a firearm.

As to the pepper spray? I've personally experienced its failure during a dog attack, so no thanks!

Is your intent to deter or KILL a charging dog? Big difference between the two.

Sorry to be the dream crusher here, but a walking stick is more intimidating than a handgun to all but the meanest, most determined dogs. It doesn't have to "clear leather" to be deployed; it's immediately available for use because it's already in your hand. The name of the game is to put something with more reach than a stubby chunk of metal and plastic between you and a dog's (or dogs') jaws. If you can draw your handgun and accurately place your shots into the kill zone of a small, fast-moving target before it sinks it's teeth into you, well... My hat goes off to you.

I've been charged (not attacked) by my fair share of off-leash dogs in my life. Not once have I been accosted by "packs" of two or more aggressive dogs. Knowing how to "read and speak dog" has saved me from getting bitten every single time. I'm not saying that being charged by two or more dogs is an impossibility, but I'll hazard a guess that it's not as likely as it's being made out to be. In any event, I think we can both agree that regularly watching the lamestream news lowers one's IQ.

Why are we having this discussion again?

 

[Cal44]

A local spca worker says they carry small air horn cans (like for use on boats) to deter dogs. Works even on Pits, he says.

 

[kwh]

So far the Street Wise Night Stick sounds best. So much disagreement even on stopping an upright biped (human). We all know quadrupeds are more difficult to stop. I would think a firearm which would be capable of "stopping" a deer or coyote would be minimum. Same attention to shot placement would apply.

 

[Backlighting]

Why you feel some need to personalize this is beyond me.

In my neck of the woods, dogs are only required to be under voice command and anyone needlessly attacking such a dog is guilty of a crime.

In effect, a person has the same burden to show they were in fear for their life or great bodily harm whether drawing on a person or a dog.

I've owned several dogs and imo, whether it's "required" or not, I believe it's just common sense to keep a dog on a leash when near people. They are unpredictable.

 

[Mainsail]

Sorry to be the dream crusher here, but a walking stick is more intimidating than a handgun...

A local spca worker says they carry small air horn cans

There are a lot of things that will 'work' for a lot of threats, but the most effective is something you have with you. I am not going to carry a walking stick, air horn, electric baton, and a sidearm everywhere I go. I'm going to have to "settle" for whatever tool I happen to have at the moment. For me that's the holstered handgun on my belt.

Lots of great suggestions all around, but few are practical for all of us.

 

[CoMF]

There are a lot of things that will 'work' for a lot of threats, but the most effective is something you have with you.

Agreed, and we must also have a firm grasp of the limitations of whatever tool we have on hand.

Speaking only for myself, I carry both a handgun and a walking stick when I'm most likely to encounter "free range" dogs. Why should I limit my options if I don't have to?

My previous statement still stands, however. If you rely solely on a handgun as a defense against mean dogs, you'd better be able to accurately place your shots in the kill zone of a small, fast-moving target before it sinks its teeth into you. It is also your responsibility to familiarize yourself with the laws of your particular jurisdiction regarding the defensive use of lethal force against dogs.

TL;DR version: Lawfully CCing a handgun? Good. Being able to properly use it when the circumstances truly warrant it? Better, and much desired.

 

[ken158]

250,000 Pitbulls and growing? Man that's unreal. I'd carry my 12 gauge Mossberg pump shotgun and Glock 21 as the sidearm with as many mags as I could put in my pockets. What area of Michigan are all these attacks happening?

My thoughts exactly... a quarter million pit bulls in how big of an area? High capacity handgun and extra mag(s) at least.

 

[hangnoose]

BANNING THE BREED

Would be a total waste of time. Dog fighters would simply switch to Akita's or some other breed, and we would have that breed running loose mauling people. DUH, why not crack down on the dog fighters & those that participate/train & breed them. It's not rocket surgery. Sounds like there is a lot of dog fighting in that area. Back to the OP, that dog picked the wrong car. I'd sure be A LOT more aware of my surroundings & the closest tree to climb, or safe place to hide. 12 pits at once? He's lucky to be alive.

 

[pmhayden]

I ride a bicycle for exercise. I am not fast, will be 62 shortly, to give you an idea. I have been attacked twice by large dogs - a pitbull "protected" the owners 8 year old son as I rode by, and a Rottweiler ran up and bit me on the leg while I was slowly going uphill. None of the attacks were life threatening - one good bite and they went back home. (

I think all the idiot dog owners live in my county, and the owners with small male parts let their dogs run free on purpose. It is the owners' fault every time. But I have permanent injuries and $1000 plus in ER visits due to dogs. If an owners cares about their dog, they will keep it locked, chained, fenced, or inside. But I can't shoot the owner, and most don't even have insurance, if they are renting. I carry pepper spray. I think it is more effective and less hassle than a firearm for dogs. You only need to spray them once.

People, on the other hand - I have been ran off the road by kids in large trucks. People - especially kids - are really clueless when it comes to risk. And I still carry the .38. But the main risks are really from stupid, careless people, drunk drivers, people who let their "Rotties" run free because "they wouldn't hurt anyone", and kids in trucks with oversized tires who over-estimate their driving ability. "Accidents".

 

[Protected One]

I ride a bicycle for exercise. I am not fast, will be 62 shortly, to give you an idea. I have been attacked twice by large dogs - a pitbull "protected" the owners 8 year old son as I rode by, and a Rottweiler ran up and bit me on the leg while I was slowly going uphill. None of the attacks were life threatening - one good bite and they went back home. (

I think all the idiot dog owners live in my county, and the owners with small male parts let their dogs run free on purpose. It is the owners' fault every time. But I have permanent injuries and $1000 plus in ER visits due to dogs. If an owners cares about their dog, they will keep it locked, chained, fenced, or inside. But I can't shoot the owner, and most don't even have insurance, if they are renting. I carry pepper spray. I think it is more effective and less hassle than a firearm for dogs. You only need to spray them once.

People, on the other hand - I have been ran off the road by kids in large trucks. People - especially kids - are really clueless when it comes to risk. And I still carry the .38. But the main risks are really from stupid, careless people, drunk drivers, people who let their "Rotties" run free because "they wouldn't hurt anyone", and kids in trucks with oversized tires who over-estimate their driving ability. "Accidents".

Regardless to who is at fault, it won't be the owner that bites someone - it's the dog. While I agree that most often the owners are the problem there are (in this area) dogs that run free because they have no owner.

They should thank God for people like you who will endure permanent injuries and $1000 hospital bills rather than shoot the dog. I am not such a person.

 

[Islander]

I have been around pit bulls my entire adult life. Do not trust them at all they were bred to fight same as herding dogs were bred to herd. And they do that very well I have watched pit bulls fight when younger it was a vicious thing they do not stop until one dies even then you have to pull them off. They have killed and maimed a lot of people in Florida. In Miami they are already illegal. I would vote to make them so nation wide.
Bob

 

[cmort666]

They should thank God for people like you who will endure permanent injuries and $1000 hospital bills rather than shoot the dog. I am not such a person.

It just boggles my mind that somebody would LET a stranger's dog bite him and NOT be willing to shoot it.

If somebody allows their 16 year old CHILD to roam about like a feral animal, and he pulls a knife or a gun on me, he's getting shot. The idea that I wouldn't do likewise to a large, vicious dog that's trying to bite me is simply incomprehensible to me.

 

[Protected One]

I have been around pit bulls my entire adult life. Do not trust them at all they were bred to fight same as herding dogs were bred to herd. And they do that very well I have watched pit bulls fight when younger it was a vicious thing they do not stop until one dies even then you have to pull them off. They have killed and maimed a lot of people in Florida. In Miami they are already illegal. I would vote to make them so nation wide.
Bob

I don't trust ANY dog, regardless to what the owners may say about their training or temperament. Many a dog has surprised their owner by "flipped out" and attacking someone unexpectedly.

It just boggles my mind that somebody would LET a stranger's dog bit him and NOT be willing to shoot it.

If somebody allows their 16 year old CHILD to roam about like a feral animal, and he pulls a knife or a gun on me, he's getting shot. The idea that I wouldn't do likewise to a large, vicious dog that's trying to bite me is simply incomprehensible to me.

You and me both!

 

[woofo1]

My girlfriend's two (2) pitbulls attack me all the time. Last weekend I sat down on her couch and these two (2) monsters jumped up on my lap and tried to lick me to death. My face was sticky until I wiped it off with a wet paper towel. I saw my life flash before my eyes.

And I was recently mauled by a Golden Retriever I was fostering for a rescue org. I'm OK, he is not. It's not the breed, it is the history of the dog so be careful out there.

 

[Kifaru]

During and after WWII, the German Shepherd Dog was viewed with suspicion for obvious, but not logical, reasons. For a time during the '60s & '70s, the Doberman Pinscher, originally bred to be a guard dog, was the dog to fear. These days, it's the "Pit Bull" that people worry about. In the last 20-30 years, the breed has become very popular in the inner city because of the combination of rough neighborhoods and small yards.

Any dog, regardless of reputation, can be aggressive. Owners who use their dogs as proxy for their own unexpressed aggression are definitely a problem. My great uncle had a neighbor who fed his Doberman gunpowder in the belief that it made the dog "mean." I don't know what the gunpowder had to do with it, but the dog was in fact crazy mean: probably because his owner was the type of ******* to feed his dog gunpowder. However, that a dog's behavior is often the owner's fault is moot when the dog is mauling you.

I always carry a J-frame and pepper spray on my walks through the open space near my home. I sometimes also use a walking stick because people love to let their dogs run off lead (which is illegal, mainly because dogs have hassled horses and wildlife). I like the idea of an air horn, though. If nothing else, it will draw attention to you and your plight.

 

[rwsmith]

That is the best reason.....

That is the best reason for carrying a high capacity gun if I ever heard one.

Once some animals get into pack or attack mentality, that's the only thing that will stop them. They fight to the death and the death is usually from what they are attacking.

My wife is a postal carrier, very gentle and non-threatening, that makes friends with all of her dog customers and the only problem she's had in 25 years was with a pit bull that somebody let wander and it about ate her up. A lot of stitches but very fortunately no major damage.

 

[camsdaddy]

Dogs are faster, smaller and more determined when they attack. I think this makes them as much if not more of a threat regardless of breed. I have been bitten and I can tell you it was fast.packs of dogs and packs of thugs are dangerous for the same reason.

 

[pmhayden]

Regardless to who is at fault, it won't be the owner that bites someone - it's the dog. While I agree that most often the owners are the problem there are (in this area) dogs that run free because they have no owner.



They should thank God for people like you who will endure permanent injuries and $1000 hospital bills rather than shoot the dog. I am not such a person.

I did not say I was unarmed. But I am starting at the low end of the spectrum and working my way up. I genuinely think pepper spray is more effective on dogs than a firearm.

But seriously, dogs attack in seconds, from the yard to the bike. I would have to explain to people who played supporting actor in the movie Deliverance why i shot their dog before it left their yard, just to be sure. You try to outrun a 1973 rusted out Chevy PU truck on a bicycle.

 

[Protected One]

I did mot say I was unarmed. But I am starting at the low end of the spectrum and working my way up. I genuinely think pepper spray is more effective on dogs than a firearm.

But seriously, dogs attack in seconds, from the yard to the bike. I would have to explain to people who played supporting actor in the movie Deliverance why i shot their dog before it left their yard, just to be sure. You try to outrun a rusted our 1973 rusted out Chevy PU truck on a bicycle.

Just curious if you would extend the same courtesy to a HUMAN attacker? You know, start at the low end of the spectrum with mace or something, and work your way up to a firearm?

 

[Kifaru]

Just curious if you would extend the same courtesy to a HUMAN attacker? You know, start at the low end of the spectrum with mace or something, and work your way up to a firearm?

I think pepper spray can come in very handy. I don't carry concealed without it. There are many more situations where pepper spray is an appropriate response than there are where firing or even displaying a firearm would be. In many jurisdictions, the threshold for using pepper spray is any aggressive physical contact, a shove for example. On the other hand, drawing down on someone who only shoved you could get you in some very hot water.

Pepper spray gives you options. If a dog is charging you, but its 12-year-old owner is running directly behind it, desperately trying to call it back, I would almost certainly start with OC in that situation. A handgun is indeed a powerful defensive tool, but not always the most appropriate one.

Obligatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and more importantly, I am not YOUR attorney. Know the laws in your area.