Armed Contractor In Your Home

[Smoke]

A general question, is a concealed carry permit required to open carry in CO?

No

If so, is she any less qualified to carry openly than anyone else in the state?

Specifically, does the person in question have a resume, references, training certifications? (Not that Smoke would know, since he is not the one potentially hiring the person in question.)

Personally, I would not be in the situation of hiring a bartender, but I suspect an interview prior to hiring her might be in order. I find you can tell a lot about people by speaking with them .

Unknown

 

[Kanewpadle]

I wouldn't expect a hired contractor to enter a strangers home unarmed anymore than I would expect a homeowner to disarm when the contractor enters the home.

Kanewpadle, haven't I read prior posts that you enter homes armed and your customers don't know?

Sounds like a lot of differing opinion that really doesn't mean anything in the real world unless the homeowner intends to mount a walk-through metal detector on the front door frame or pat down everyone.

Phil, yes I do. I carry on the job all day everyday.

This difference is that it's concealed. The home owner or business owner doesn't know. Therefore he doesn't assume the liability if something happens. I do.

Do I think they would be happy if they knew? Some yes, some no. Would they let me in the door while open carrying? Some yes, some no. If I were denied access to a home I would understand completely and not argue the point.

My point is and has been all along is that while the 2A puts us on common ground, it doesn't mean that were are all equal. Some of us take it more serious than the next guy. Some don't seek training or practice much if at all. I can't do much about these people on the street but I can in my home. These people are constantly in the news after they have done something stupid.

And then there's insurance. My employer has significantly increased his liability insurance because we both carry at work. Would your insurance company cover a mishap at your house if you knowing let me in your house armed? Why take the chance?

 

[email4eric]

A women open carrying and serving alcohol to strangers?

...what possibly could go wrong?

 

[jtcarm]

I wouldn't, but then I certainly wouldn't be having a party in my home that requires a bartender. If I hired someone to remodel a bathroom and discovered them packing, I'd make it clear they're not welcome in my house carrying.

It's up to her/him. She needs to do her homework and inquire with the host about what to expect. Then ask if it's OK if she carries. Liable to make everyone very uncomfortable.

I once actually attended a NY party at the home of a parish priest (my parent's church) which included a professional BT. I'm sure he was safe, but Episcopalians have been known to get rowdy

 

[Watchdog]

...do you trust armed Americans enough to allow them (when you are in the position to permit or deny) to exercise what would otherwise be their natural rights to self defense on your own property? If you answer 'no', then you must also think those same folks are not trustworthy of being armed outside your own home in public.

That's just too much of a blanket statement for me to accept, because for me, this argument has more holes in it than a target shot by Jerry Miculek. I'll be real honest here and say there's a whole crockpot (euphemism) full of folks I wouldn't trust with a gun, much less let 'em on my property or into my house. I see them everywhere, and I see them every day.

There are people among us who should never be allowed access to firearms.

 

[American1776]

This situation has nothing to do with her right to carry vs a homeowner's decision not to let her carry in the situation described.......See my post #38.......and Smoke's post #55.

I'm not assuming liability for someone I don't even know......... her carrying anywhere else doesn't place that burden on me!

Whether you don't trust her because she might shoot you, or because she might have a mishap and you MIGHT be held liable, are both indicators that you just don't trust Armed Americans enough that you think they should be permitted to carry, whether on your own property or elsewhere. It's all the same when it comes to whether you truly believe others are worthy of the same freedoms that you think yourself worthy of. Either you do or you don't

 

[American1776]

That's just too much of a blanket statement for me to accept, because for me, this argument has more holes in it than a target shot by Jerry Miculek. I'll be real honest here and say there's a whole crockpot (euphemism) full of folks I wouldn't trust with a gun, much less let 'em on my property or into my house. I see them everywhere, and I see them every day.

There are people among us who should never be allowed access to firearms.

I agree that violent felonsshould be prohibited. But this isn't the topic. We're talking about generally normal Americans who have permits to carry. With all due respect: your quote right here could have come right out of a leaflet from the Brady Campaign or Bloomburg himself (while he is of course surrounded by a dozen armed guards that he approved of).

 

[BC38]

I wouldn't have a party requiring a bartender either, and if I attended one (unlikely) I'd be one of the teetotalers keeping an eye on anybody open carrying.

BUT, if I were hiring this person I'd interview them first. If they were open carrying, and I felt they were trustworthy enough to work in my home I'd still hire them BUT I would also ask that they CC when in my home, out of consideration for the comfort of my guests.

If they didn't show up to the interview open carrying, but they did show up for the job open carrying, I'd also ask them to conceal it.

If they were unwilling to do so, then they wouldn't get the job. Simple.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Whether you don't trust her because she might shoot you, or because she might have a mishap and you MIGHT be held liable, are both indicators that you just don't trust Armed Americans enough that you think they should be permitted to carry, whether on your own property or elsewhere. It's all the same when it comes to whether you truly believe others are worthy of the same freedoms that you think yourself worthy of. Either you do or you don't

You are so far off base it's not even funny.......

I don't know this women,yet she shows up at my door open carrying and you want me to blindly employ/contract with her and accept liability for her actions......

What is this "worthy" stuff......in your state she may have a right to carry...but...that doesn't in anyway translate to me having to accept legal and financial liability for this "stranger's" possible actions..........

Frankly I wouldn't hire an unarmed "bartender" as described.....for the same reasons......one of the reasons one hires a bartender is to control/limit consumption to assure no one gets too inebriated to drive.

Why would anyone accept that risk no matter how minor "you" feel it is.....

.....I don't blindly "trust" strangers..... do you???

As I said before if she is carrying at the mall, on main street or in a movie theater..... no big deal to me..is she worthy?..do I trust her to carry?....can't say..... I don't know her...so I have no basis on which to form an intelligent opinion.... but I'm not going to assume, or be held liable, for her actions.

 

[Comrad]

Let's see, contractor in the house, with a nail gun, hammers, sheetrock knives, and various items perfectly capable of ending my life. I don't think the gun is anymore of a threat than what's in his tool box if he intends to do me harm.

 

[American1776]

You are so far off base it's not even funny.......

I don't know this women,yet she shows up at my door open carrying and you want me to blindly employ/contract with her and accept liability for her actions......

What is this "worthy" stuff......in your state she may have a right to carry...but...that doesn't in anyway translate to me having to accept legal and financial liability for this "stranger's" possible actions..........

Frankly I wouldn't hire an unarmed "bartender" as described.....for the same reasons......one of the reasons one hires a bartender is to control/limit consumption to assure no one gets too inebriated to drive.

Why would anyone accept that risk no matter how minor "you" feel it is.....

.....I don't blindly "trust" strangers..... do you???

As I said before if she is carrying at the mall, on main street or in a movie theater..... no big deal to me..is she worthy?..do I trust her to carry?....can't say I don't know her....... but I'm not going to be held liable for her actions.

You obviously didn't understand or read what I said in my post. I don't want you to do anything, or accept anything. So refrain from talking as if I do.

You say, ".in your state she may have a right to carry...but...that doesn't in anyway translate to me having to accept legal and financial liability for this "stranger's" possible actions..........". No, it doesn't translate to you having to accept liablity. I never said it does. You have the right to deny her permission in your home armed, because you don't want to accept the liability risk if she might misuse her firearm. But this indicates that you don't want her carrying in your home because of the risk of what she might do---and this is the same argument that anti-gun groups use to support laws against allowing anyone to carry ANYWHERE. They argue that they don't want to accept the risk that some people might misuse their guns in public, (either by shooting someone, or having an ND, etc). Your reason for disallowing someone in your home armed is for the same BASIC reason the anti-gun ignoramus's don't want anyone armed anywhere: we just don't want to take the risk of what they MIGHT do, no matter how small the risk. That risk might involve being liable (as in the case of your own home), or it might involve someone shooting you. Same basic reasoning.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Whether you don't trust her because she might shoot you, or because she might have a mishap and you MIGHT be held liable, are both indicators that you just don't trust Armed Americans enough that you think they should be permitted to carry, whether on your own property or elsewhere. It's all the same when it comes to whether you truly believe others are worthy of the same freedoms that you think yourself worthy of. Either you do or you don't

As an aside..... I'm not sure I'd blindly place my "trust" in a large percentage of the "Armed Americans" (even those without felony convictions) roaming the streets.... in the Gang Controlled areas of Chicago..... nor do I think I'd permit them to carry on my property.

just saying

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

What????



Are you referring to my comments about catering staff at "my party"being openly armed..... and the impression I want to present to my guests.



Or the Orkin Man?....cus I've never seen a Contractor open Carry around the Burgh...... and seeing one at my door might give me pause. For decades there have been stories of home invasions/robberies by "meter readers" etc.

Both.

Both describe an uncomfortableness and fear at the mere sight of a gun.

Is the girl or Orkin man less or more of a real threat with a concealed gun? Do felons and outlaws open carry? Not that I've heard of.

Irrational fear at the mere sight of a gun.

 

[American1776]

As an aside..... I'm not sure I'd blindly place my "trust" in a large percentage of the "Armed Americans" (even those without felony convictions) roaming the streets.... in the Gang Controlled areas of Chicago..... nor do I think I'd permit them to carry on my property.

just saying

I suspect we agree on 98 percent of gun policy issues, and here we might have just a subtle disagreement in philosophy. That's fine; and we can respectfully agree to disagree here.

 

[BAM-BAM]

But this indicates that you don't want her carrying in your home because of the risk of what she might do---

this is the same argument that anti-gun groups use to.........

support laws against allowing anyone to carry ANYWHERE. They argue that they don't want to accept the risk that some people might misuse their guns in public, (either by shooting someone, or having an ND, etc).

Your reason for disallowing someone in your home armed is for the same BASIC reason the anti-gun ignoramus's don't want anyone armed anywhere: we just don't want to take the risk of what they MIGHT do, no matter how small the risk.

The reasoning isn't even close.......in the situation described by the OP you are asking a homeowner to accept legal liability for the possible actions of a stranger.......

this has nothing to do with one's position on an individuals right to have and carry a handgun for personal protection/2nd Ammendment.... that is a broader societal issue........and the liability rests with the individual who chooses to exercise that right.

We the people....make decisions about how we want our society to be organized and function...it should be IMHO a majority decision.... subject to individual's inalienable rights........but we accept the consequences of those decisions made by the group as a group.

By your logic.........

If this bartender has a right to open carry and I should allow it in my home...... if I believe in the right to self defense/2nd amendment............. then.......

I must also let her wear a tee-shirt with a racial slur, derogatory comment about a religion, wear a swastika armband or which makes some other political statement while bar tending in my home..... because I believe in free speech?

 

[American1776]

The reasoning isn't even close.......in the situation described by the OP you are asking a homeowner to accept legal liability for the possible actions of a stranger.......

this has nothing to do with one's position on an individuals right to have and carry a handgun for personal protection/2nd Ammendment.... that is a broader societal issue.

We the people....make decisions about how we want our society to be organized and function...it should be IMHO a majority decision.... subject to individual's inalienable rights........but we accept the consequences of those decisions made by the group as a group.

By your logic.........

If this bartender has a right to open carry and I should allow it in my home...... if I believe in the right to self defense/2nd amendment............. then.......

I must also let her wear a tee-shirt with a racial slur, derogatory comment about a religion, wear a swastika armband or which makes some other political statement while bar tending in my home..... because I believe in free speech?

I'm not telling or asking you or anyone to do anything. All I'm doing is pointing out the implications of a particular type of reasoning. Again, I also repeatedly said my point has nothing to do with her right to carry a gun or the 2nd Amendemnt or the first Amendment for that matter. Those are irrelevant digressions. Bringing up these issues indicates that my posts are not actually being read.

 

[Smoke]

Comparing my home to a private business is an apples to The Empire State Building comparison.

If I enter your business I've already conceded to your right to make the rules there. If I don't consent I don't go in. But just because recognize your Right to make the rules in your business doesn't mean I have to follow the same rules you set in your business in my home.

 

[pharmer]

Thousands of words of discussion: "Open carry, concealed, pros, cons, insurance liability, what ifs." A hundred years ago, in an age before the .gov became the controlling force in our everyday lives, folks decided for themselves whether or not to carry a firearm. Nobody asked, nobody told as such discussion was rude and tangential to any civilized conversation. We're running around "debating talking points" instead of living. Thanks all you bureaucratic DC cudgels clustered in the Potomac swamp. Joe

 

[Smoke]

Is the girl or Orkin man less or more of a real threat with a concealed gun?

My question was never is it OK for the girl or the Orkin Man to open carry in your home. The question was is it OK for the contractor to be armed in your home?

Open Carry is just a logistics issue because the only way I would know is if they were open carrying.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Both.

Both describe an uncomfortableness and fear at the mere sight of a gun.

Is the girl or Orkin man less or more of a real threat with a concealed gun? Do felons and outlaws open carry? Not that I've heard of.

Irrational fear at the mere sight of a gun.

No..... these open carry situations .... merely gives me more information with which to make my decisions....... in these cases about people I don't know.

Do I want my guests thinking I think I need armed staff when they visit? will my guest feel comfortable at this party or come to my next one?

Strange; I've never seen a openly armed Orkin man before...what kind of bugs does he think I have here ... let me verify his ID and company policy.

My father was a police officer;I was exposed to guns everyday of my life until I went to College.....had a 2 week hiatus ...... then the Rifle Team started Practice. LOL