CC holder - traffic stop gone bad

[elpac3]

News is on local and national media about a reported CC holder and a traffic stop gone bad.

Aftermath of fatal Falcon Heights officer-involved shooting on video - StarTribune.com

Falcon Heights shooting: Woman livestreams aftermath - CNN.com

 

[SAFireman]

When the officer says 'keep your hands where I can see them' after you stated 'I have a gun'....I can totally understand the officer's reaction.

 

[Muss Muggins]

My only comment is that in the video I saw, the female occupant, who is presumably the "live streamer," seemed remarkably calm . . .

 

[JohnSW]

Apparent CCW holder killed in traffic stop

"The girlfriend said on the video that the officer "asked him for license and registration. He told him that it was in his wallet, but he had a pistol on him because he's licensed to carry. The officer said don't move. As he was putting his hands back up, the officer shot him in the arm four or five times."

The video shows a uniformed police officer holding a pistol on the couple from outside the car. The officer can be heard to say, "I told him not to reach for it. I told him to get his hand out."

Aftermath of fatal Falcon Heights officer-involved shooting on video - StarTribune.com

 

[WVSig]

When the officer says 'keep your hands where I can see them' after you stated 'I have a gun'....I can totally understand the officer's reaction.

According to the video the officer instructed him to present his lic and registration which was what he was reaching for when he was shot. The officer seems to have given conflicting instructions. The officer at no time refutes that statement on the 9+ minutes of tape. Do you still believe that the officer was justified? Honestly IMHO there are no grounds to make that type of statement. We have video of what occurred after the shooting. Nothing prior to it. We don't know exactly what the CC holder said or even what the cop actually said so I think you are rushing to judgement.

Also if you look at the video the officer is pointing his gun at a dying man and an unarmed lady with his finger in the trigger guard and his finger on the trigger. He is showing poor trigger disciple which might be an indicator of a poor level of overall training.

 

[Kanewpadle]

As usual, it's too early to speculate.

 

[Kanewpadle]

According to the video the officer instructed him to present his lic and registration which was what he was reaching for when he was shot. The officer seems to have given conflicting instructions. The officer at no time refutes that statement on the 9+ minutes of tape. Do you still believe that the officer was justified? Honestly IMHO there are no grounds to make that type of statement. We have video of what occurred after the shooting. Nothing prior to it. We don't know exactly what the CC holder said or even what the cop actually said so I think you are rushing to judgement.

Also if you look at the video the officer is pointing his gun at a dying man and an unarmed lady with his finger in the trigger guard and his finger on the trigger. He is showing poor trigger disciple which might be an indicator of a poor level of overall training.

Don't open a can of worms unless you've been there. I'm guessing you haven't.

His gun is still on target. Get over it.

 

[WVSig]

Don't open a can of worms unless you've been there. I'm guessing you haven't.

His gun is still on target. Get over it.

Get over it? You are kidding right? Is it standard operating procedure to cover an dying man and an unarmed suspect with your finger in the trigger? I don't have to be there to recognize poor gun handling. He is under stress and you can see him shaking and hear it in his voice. Holding a gun "covering" these people in that manner could have easily resulted in a ND. Clearly YMMV.

As usual, it's too early to speculate.

I am not speculating I am repeating what is on the tape. I have stated that we do not know all the details of what happened before the facebook video but we do have that. Stating what is one the video does not equal speculation.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Get over it? You are kidding right? Is it standard operating procedure to cover an dying man and an unarmed suspect with your finger in the trigger? I don't have to be there to recognize poor gun handling. He is under stress and you can see him shaking and hear it in his voice. Holding a gun "covering" these people in that manner could have easily resulted in a ND. Clearly YMMV.



I am not speculating I am repeating what is on the tape. I have stated that we do not know all the details of what happened before the facebook video but we do have that. Stating what is one the video does not equal speculation.

As usual people want to argue before all of the facts are known. It's a news report for petes sake. Only the people involved know exactly what happened. Think we can wait until after the official investigation is done to pass judgement?

 

[Iggy]

That is why I carry my ID and DL in my shirt pocket. Don't want to be reaching down in the vicinity of my gun under those circumstances.

I would also tell the officer "My ID is my shirt pocket may I get it now?"

 

[Absalom]

And here we go again.

Many people who are already sure what happened probably already knew before it even happened. Either another innocent black guy killed by a cop, or a hard-working cop responding reasonably to a threat. Pick your side.

The investigation will no doubt find out whatever can be found out. The result will make nobody happy. The video will be largely useless, since it shows nothing of the actually important events, and the two most important witnesses, the officer and the woman, are both heavily invested in their specific view of how things went down.

For those CHL carriers who habitually carry on the right hip IWB or out, and their wallet in the right back pocket like most guys, a sobering reminder how uncomfortably similar the motions of reaching for either look to others. I don't think this would be the first instance of such a misunderstanding leading to grief.

 

[moralem]

As usual, it's too early to speculate.

It is not to early to speculate that in fact a man lost his life because of mistakes, whether it be on his part or the officers part......no speculation here, a man is dead unnecessarily.

 

[poordevil]

If a person tells a Cop "yes I have a gun" Then is told to give me (the cop) what ever paper work he wants.....and then is shot for his trouble....not right

About a few years ago...while I still lived in San Diego CO. CAL, my son and I were coming back from a shooting range and had to pass through a Border Patrol Check Point. A female Agent had passed us through , then saw our rifles in the back seat and yelled "STOP" she began to question us , where the guns legal? did we belong to the gun club shooting range we were leaving? on and on until a male agent with , apparently some experience and common since, came over to us and said we can go.

The female agent had her hand on her pistol and was visibly shaking.....What can go wrong???

 

[Cal44]

Assuming you have a minute or so from the time you stop until the officer reaches your door, getting your wallet out and holding it in your hand on the top of the steering wheel would be a good idea.

Then your hands are in sight and you don't have to reach for anything to get your id out.

 

[DevilDog72]

Not all the facts are known, that said, in my view it was just a matter of time. In Texas alone there are now over one million people with a carry permit and there are nervous LEO's out there, and rightfully so. They now have a target on their backs....I have a daughter, daughter-n-law and a cousin in active law enforcement and having met some of their co-workers and can tell you there are some that feel John Q. Public has no business carrying a firearm. This attitude and the apprehension on our LEO's and a momentary lapse in judgment of a carry holder could lead to this happening.

I have been pulled over twice by police and have not experienced any unreasonable request by the officer in question after identifying myself, but, I can see how it could go very wrong very quickly. I switched the back pocket where I carry my wallet to the opposite side I carry my weapon just for this reason. In both cases of being pulled over the officer and trooper asked the location of my firearm and I responded and then informed the LEO as to the location of my ID. I keep my strong side hand in view and inform the officer I am getting my ID as requested and move very slowly. Since those stops I now will have my ID ready when the LEO reaches my truck with both hands in plain sight.
This was a terrible tragedy and I pray God will help the ones directly involved as well as those close to them that must help them work through this.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Not to judge the story in the news, but for over a half century, my husband has realized that reaching into his back pocket while seated in a car is potentially problematic. He always politely asks permission to exit the car to retrieve his wallet, and rotates his body to keep his hands and pocket in view of the LEO.

 

[poordevil]

Not all the facts are known, that said, in my view it was just a matter of time. In Texas alone there are now over one million people with a carry permit and there are nervous LEO's out there, and rightfully so. They now have a target on their backs....I have a daughter, daughter-n-law and a cousin in active law enforcement and having met some of their co-workers and can tell you there are some that feel John Q. Public has no business carrying a firearm. This attitude and the apprehension on our LEO's and a momentary lapse in judgment of a carry holder could lead to this happening.

I have been pulled over twice by police and have not experienced any unreasonable request by the officer in question after identifying myself, but, I can see how it could go very wrong very quickly. I switched the back pocket where I carry my wallet to the opposite side I carry my weapon just for this reason. In both cases of being pulled over the officer and trooper asked the location of my firearm and I responded and then informed the LEO as to the location of my ID. I keep my strong side hand in view and inform the officer I am getting my ID as requested and move very slowly. Since those stops I now will have my ID ready when the LEO reaches my truck with both hands in plain sight.
This was a terrible tragedy and I pray God will help the ones directly involved as well as those close to them that must help them work through this.

and the police KNOW which side you carry your gun on??

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

From what little I have read/watched

The driver had a carry permit and was employed for over 10 years at the same place, which if true would indicate he's not just a street criminal druggie thug. A woman and her child were also in the car. The woman sounded sober. The stop was for a tail light out. Is ll that true? Duknow...

IF what we have here is a good guy with a gun shooting another good guy with a gun then that's very bad news.

 

[petepeterson]

A sad situation indeed. We'll probably never get to the bottom of what really happened and how it went down. I find it interesting, though, how fast the girlfriend whipped out her cell phone and started recording...and in a calm voice. Could we have here an incident that was planned (in order to accuse the cop of police brutality), but not expected to end like it did? Stranger things have happened.

That would be extraordinary dedication to the cause...

 

[cp2146]

I posted this response on another thread about the same incident.

A sad situation indeed. We'll probably never get to the bottom of what really happened and how it went down. I find it interesting, though, how fast the girlfriend whipped out her cell phone and started recording. Had this been me, I believe I'd have been a little more stunned at the outcome, before thinking to get it all on tape. Could we have here a scenario that was planned (in order to accuse the cop of police brutality), but not expected to end like it did? Just sayin', but hoping I'm wrong.