tomcatt51
Member
The problem with your position is that this isn't something that happens only with 15-22s. It can, and does, happen with any of the rimfires.
It appears that there's a problem with the 15/22!
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Battle Born Nevada
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The OOB with the 15/22 is not a new problem. I have read replace the extractor, clean the gun more often, bad ammo and the pins walking may be the problem. No on has the answer. We all paid good money for these guns and if we operate the gun in a safe manner should expect to not have OOB and someone getting hurt. Lets give Hillary ammo to take away the semi auto.
tomcatt51
Member
You read about them here because this is a 15-22 forum. It gets talked about more often than it happens. And because of the path Project Appleseed has taken.
Maybe this will help clarify:
To read the whole post go back to post #117. I shortened it but tried to not take it out of context.
Ed Fowler
Member
Since we have a lot of experts here I would like to ask what you think of this cartridge, it is a Federal "Auto Match". Brand new ammo.
tomcatt51
Member
OOB or did it come out of the box that way?
Ed Fowler
Member
It is a fired cartridge.
tomcatt51
Member
Can you post a clear close up pic of the face of the case head? The surface the firing pin hits? I'd really like to see if there's visual evidence of what kind of hit ignited it.
I haven't seen an OOB in a 15-22 nor have I have I run into anyone who's had one. I'm not the greatest authority on this but I travel and shoot matches with a 15-22 and people like to talk about them when they see you're shooting one so I'm pretty sure the subject would come up.
Ed Fowler
Member
I have more photos and can try for a real close up of the head tomorrow. Many write about oob, I am not sure what they mean. I will tell you what this one is all about.
I purchased a new Victor, shot 100's of rounds and a CCI Blazer blew it up, tossing the extractor somewhere, damaging the bolt and the barrel. CCI CCI asked for the rest of the ammo and the blown cartridge and then claimed it was an oob. Smith and Wesson fixed it at no charge to me.
I just got the Victor back from the factory and was shooting some Federal auto match, finished an old box, about 40 rounds then opened a new box, Lot #1FK257 Federal Auto match. They sounded different, some bang, some boom, some pop. I was checking each round, the Victor with good ammo usually shoots an easy 7 inch group at 88 yards. These were shooting a 14 inch group, the greatest variation being vertical dispersion.
I would shoot one round, engage the safety, set the Victor down and check with my field glasses where the bullet hit the target. At about round 34 out of the new box there was a louder boom, smoke around the chamber and what was left of the round was stuck in the chamber. The case is real clean, and the bullet did not stick in the barrel, the extractor was not damaged.
Since I had engaged the safety between rounds I know the round did not fire out of battery. I believe the powder charge was to heavy and the action started to cycle before the bullet exited the barrel.
I feel Smith and Wesson is taking the blame for ammunition problems. They sent me a shipping label and just received my Victor, after I hear from them I will decided what to do with the rest of this box of ammo. I am hoping to find an independent lab that can check it out.
I purchased a new Victor, shot 100's of rounds and a CCI Blazer blew it up, tossing the extractor somewhere, damaging the bolt and the barrel. CCI CCI asked for the rest of the ammo and the blown cartridge and then claimed it was an oob. Smith and Wesson fixed it at no charge to me.
I just got the Victor back from the factory and was shooting some Federal auto match, finished an old box, about 40 rounds then opened a new box, Lot #1FK257 Federal Auto match. They sounded different, some bang, some boom, some pop. I was checking each round, the Victor with good ammo usually shoots an easy 7 inch group at 88 yards. These were shooting a 14 inch group, the greatest variation being vertical dispersion.
I would shoot one round, engage the safety, set the Victor down and check with my field glasses where the bullet hit the target. At about round 34 out of the new box there was a louder boom, smoke around the chamber and what was left of the round was stuck in the chamber. The case is real clean, and the bullet did not stick in the barrel, the extractor was not damaged.
Since I had engaged the safety between rounds I know the round did not fire out of battery. I believe the powder charge was to heavy and the action started to cycle before the bullet exited the barrel.
I feel Smith and Wesson is taking the blame for ammunition problems. They sent me a shipping label and just received my Victor, after I hear from them I will decided what to do with the rest of this box of ammo. I am hoping to find an independent lab that can check it out.
I live 15 minutes away from some of Federals biggest facilities. I know and have known many employees that work or have worked there in various departments.
I would not rule out an ammo issue.....
tomcatt51
Member
Interesting. What do you mean by "what was left of the round was stuck in the chamber"? the last section of case mouth that appears to be intact in your pic?
In a blow back action, the usual scenario is that upon firing the case is expanded out into contact with the chamber wall and the bolt (or slide) doesn't move back 'til pressure in the barrel has dropped enough for the case to "relax" its' grip on the chamber wall and then the case pushes the bolt back. Sorry if that was redundant.
Is the rim or head of the case, the part that is outside of the chamber but "trapped" in the bolt/slide recess ruptured?
There's a bunch of Federal Auto Match out there right now. Federal seems to have flooded the market with it recently. I have 5,000+ rds of lots 1FK103 & 1FK104 sitting here I haven't shot any of yet.
The last bucket of Remington Golden bullets I had did the bang and pop thing but there seemed to be only under-charges not over-charges.
coolcobramatt
Member
I called S&W on Monday to pick their brains on the situation and got a nervous type fellow on the line. While he wouldn't give me any info he said he would take my contact info and have someone return my call. All he would say was don't believe what you read on an internet forum. When I mentioned it was the S&W forum, he quickly noted that it wasn't approved or administered by Smith and Wesson lol. Adding that forum posters could be disgruntled S&W employees, competition etc. CYA 101.
3 days later now and not a peep. I want to trust Smith but knowing there is a controversy brewing, one would think they would address a customer's concerns more quickly.
3 days later now and not a peep. I want to trust Smith but knowing there is a controversy brewing, one would think they would address a customer's concerns more quickly.
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There is no controversy nor is there a problem with the 15-22. There are FUDDS who like to stir up trouble where there is none.
Ed Fowler
Member
Attached are photos I think you wanted.
It seems to me that there are two main variables, if the rifle was the problem every shot would be defective.
If the ammo is the problem some shots could be the problem.
I have an old rifle with excess head space, every high velocity cartridge will blow the rim off. Low velocity shoots great.
Happens every time.
It seems to me that there are two main variables, if the rifle was the problem every shot would be defective.
If the ammo is the problem some shots could be the problem.
I have an old rifle with excess head space, every high velocity cartridge will blow the rim off. Low velocity shoots great.
Happens every time.
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tomcatt51
Member
Yes. Thank you. You can see the firing pin strike and you can see the rim's intact where it was trapped by the bolt recess and how it blew out right at the end of the chamber wall between the bolt and barrel faces.
S&WIowegan
US Veteran
I am currently running Federal Automatch in both my S&W 22 Victory and a Ruger 22/45 Mark III Lite. There is no doubt the ammo has erratic performance. I can feel it, hear it and even see it on a sunny day. I was running the Ruger Mk III at a steel challenge match in August. One round was so light the RO was trying to stop me for a squib but I got the hit. Later on, I had such a weak charge we were aware of an obvious time lapse before the steel rang. Last night at a different steel shoot, I had an obvious overly hot AutoMatch round.
Malfunctions and blowouts are normal when running semiauto 22LR guns. I don't keep track of how many but it's the ammo, not the guns.
In my not so humble opinion, the Appleseed crew at the match in question was running an inherently unsafe firing line to squeeze all the shooters in. When the blowout occurred and they saw blood, they panicked and decided to throw S&W under the bus to deflect blame from the Appleseed program. That's what people under pressure sometimes do.
I'm interested in S&W's response.
Malfunctions and blowouts are normal when running semiauto 22LR guns. I don't keep track of how many but it's the ammo, not the guns.
In my not so humble opinion, the Appleseed crew at the match in question was running an inherently unsafe firing line to squeeze all the shooters in. When the blowout occurred and they saw blood, they panicked and decided to throw S&W under the bus to deflect blame from the Appleseed program. That's what people under pressure sometimes do.
I'm interested in S&W's response.
Ed Fowler
Member
When the extractor of my Win Mod 61 blew out it flew over 39 feet from the breech. That was from a CCI Blazer that detonated and is why I never stand beside a gun being fired.
I sincerely hope all who read this keep it in mind and preach to all who will hear.
I sincerely hope all who read this keep it in mind and preach to all who will hear.
coolcobramatt
Member
If there were no controversy, we wouldn't be reading this thread. As a consumer, I have the right to ask S&W if they can provide any info to quell my concerns. I'm still waiting on that call back. That's more disconcerting than your FUDDS.
coolcobramatt
Member
Attached are photos I think you wanted.
Well poop, just bought 3500 rds of this stuff lol
tomcatt51
Member
As a consumer, I have the right to ask S&W if they can provide any info to quell my concerns. I'm still waiting on that call back. That's more disconcerting than your FUDDS.
What are you wanting them to tell you?
What question(s) did you ask?
Just curious what you're expecting.
zymurgeist
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Not necessarily. Intermittent malfunctions are far more common both with ammunition and guns themselves. One of the unfortunate characteristics of rim fire ammunition is OOB malfunctions are far more common than with center fire ammunition. Even in guns that have worked flawlessly in the past. It's just the nature of the priming system. I wouldn't abandon your Federal Automatch yet. There hasn't been a significant uptick in complaints yet. There have been bad batches from all rim fire ammunition manufacturers so it's worth watching.
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