tomcatt51
Member
Based on the slim "evidence" provided by Project Appleseed my opinion is that it was a "knee jerk reaction to an injury" and Project Appleseed did an "IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT" while pointing at S&W.
It appears that there's a problem with the 15/22!
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cjt50
Member
Bottom line to all this is Apple seed over reacted with a poorly worded notification to their folks and it went viral on the webs.
Not the 1st time this has happen.
When you shoot enough 22lr in a day the gun will be dirty. Take that with some poor quality control during ammo manufacture, (slightly oversized case, deformed bullet or crimp etc. etc.) and you will have the recipe for a case failure.
I have had a few case failures with 22lr in different guns, and the common denominator is poor ammo in a dirty gun. They have occurred in a Ruger, S&W, Savage and Marlin Semi-auto's. Ammo; well I hate to trash 'em but Remington or Cascade was the offending ammunition every time.
Have I had a case failure in a 15-22, yes. The reason it occurred was the gun had shot 2000 rounds that day and the ammo was not the best. No one was hurt, the gun was inspected and placed back into service after a quick cleaning. I learned that its not a bad idea to run a bore snake every 500 rounds if i'm going to shoot that much between cleanings when using crappy ammo.
Would I buy another 15-22, yup got 4 of them. One has just shy of 90k thru it and the only complaint I have is the firing pins fail too often the way I shoot'em.
Stay safe!
Not the 1st time this has happen.
When you shoot enough 22lr in a day the gun will be dirty. Take that with some poor quality control during ammo manufacture, (slightly oversized case, deformed bullet or crimp etc. etc.) and you will have the recipe for a case failure.
I have had a few case failures with 22lr in different guns, and the common denominator is poor ammo in a dirty gun. They have occurred in a Ruger, S&W, Savage and Marlin Semi-auto's. Ammo; well I hate to trash 'em but Remington or Cascade was the offending ammunition every time.
Have I had a case failure in a 15-22, yes. The reason it occurred was the gun had shot 2000 rounds that day and the ammo was not the best. No one was hurt, the gun was inspected and placed back into service after a quick cleaning. I learned that its not a bad idea to run a bore snake every 500 rounds if i'm going to shoot that much between cleanings when using crappy ammo.
Would I buy another 15-22, yup got 4 of them. One has just shy of 90k thru it and the only complaint I have is the firing pins fail too often the way I shoot'em.
Stay safe!
TomAnderson
Member
There were a few cardboard dividers at the Appleseed I went to but not for everyone. It was crowded. There was less than a foot between shooting mats.
I know my Appleseed experience. I paid 80 bucks to listen to instructors um and uh about Paul Revere. The shooting lessons ran hot and cold with "qualified instructors" correcting each other all day. There were no spotting scopes. We spent more time walking than shooting. At the end of the day we were yelled at by the guy in charge. He said if we didn't come back to pass the test and become an instructor we hated freedom.
Get involved in NRA smallbore or CMP rimfire sporter. Its safe. Its professional. Its standardized. Its fun.
coolcobramatt
Member
Well I hope this is blown out of proportion as I bought a brand new 15-22 3 days ago.
GhostMutt
Member
Hmmm they modified the range with cardboard dividers eh? Well that is both practical and inexpensive. So that shows that they are aware of potential issues arising from having so many shooters crammed on a firing line. I wonder why that is not standardised or why some obviously see it as impractical and not economically viable?
I wonder how the 'qualified instructors' observed the line, which was also raised as an issue against such a costly, impractical and unnecessary measure such as the use of a simple cardboard divider?
So in your opinion as a paying customer, how would you describe the safety aspect of the shoot, in comparison to the NRA smallbore or CMP rimfire sporter, which you mentioned.
Also as a footnote.....regarding the chastisement by the 'guy in charge'....surely choosing whether or not to come back, based on your actual experience, is fully exercising your right to 'Freedom' and being coerced to come back is actually denying said freedoms.
GhostMutt
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dieselbeef
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it is appleseeds show...cant they decide who plays in it..for whatever reason they want..didn't realize it was anyones ''right'' to shoot appleseed with a 15-22
BlueOvalBandit
Member
Well if it does decide to go Chernobyl on you, as a fellow S&W enthusiast, I'll offer to risk life and limb to properly dispose of it for you. You pay just S&H to me, but if you act now for the next 72 hours I'm running a special for all S&W forum members, I'll reimburse all costs to ship the defective rifles for disposal.
GhostMutt
Member
Well if it does decide to go Chernobyl on you, as a fellow S&W enthusiast, I'll offer to risk life and limb to properly dispose of it for you. You pay just S&H to me, but if you act now for the next 72 hours I'm running a special for all S&W forum members, I'll reimburse all costs to ship the defective rifles for disposal.
I am now overly concerned about mine...It is away at the moment and when it comes back i am probably going to be too scared to shoot it....so if you are going reimburse all costs to ship...then...i'll send you mine.
Seeing as i live over 8526km away shipping is going to be a little on the steep side, so lets say.....because of the volatile cargo, the fact that i'll be sending it by boat, (so they can scupper the vessel should the gun decide to runaway) It will also need to go the long way round so that the dangerous casing ejection side never actually faces anyone. It will have to be packaged in some kind of protective lead case and a team of qualified instructors on hand to react to any incidents....that should run shipping at about $20,000.
I accept paypal
I am now overly concerned about mine...It is away at the moment and when it comes back i am probably going to be too scared to shoot it....so if you are going reimburse all costs to ship...then...i'll send you mine.
Seeing as i live over 8526km away shipping is going to be a little on the steep side, so lets say.....because of the volatile cargo, the fact that i'll be sending it by boat, (so they can scupper the vessel should the gun decide to runaway) It will also need to go the long way round so that the dangerous casing ejection side never actually faces anyone. It will have to be packaged in some kind of protective lead case and a team of qualified instructors on hand to react to any incidents....that should run shipping at about $20,000.
I accept paypal
You forgot loading and unloading by a team of robots to prevent it murdering anyone
TomAnderson
Member
The Appleseed line was made cold before going down to check targets. All weapons had ECIs and each one was checked.
They have their own version of Muzzle-Action-Trigger and the traditional safety rules. We were made to chorus them multiple times a day.
It was over the top. I dont know how effective it is to shame customers to return by saying we are bad Americans.
"I don't have a dog in this fight. Don't own a 15-22, though I've shot them. Too much plastic and was not impressed with the accuracy, so I went with a CMMG."
If you decide to get a 15-22, try it with different types of ammo. I get great groupings out of Federal Game Shok and dirty Golden bullets. Other ammos such as CCI, the grouping was not all that great. As a matter of fact, one of my worst groupings was with CCI. Different guns do better with certain ammos.
If you decide to get a 15-22, try it with different types of ammo. I get great groupings out of Federal Game Shok and dirty Golden bullets. Other ammos such as CCI, the grouping was not all that great. As a matter of fact, one of my worst groupings was with CCI. Different guns do better with certain ammos.
cyphertext
US Veteran
Too much hand wringing over the ammo advice given in the manual. Those "warnings" were in the manual due to the test guns being unreliable with those particular rounds PRIOR to the fix with the blue springs! S&W did not update the manual afterwards.
Also, all that advice means is that those rounds were unreliable in their test gun... Fail to feed, fail to fire, fail to eject... some type of issue where the rifle did not operate efficiently. However, use of those rounds listed will not damage your rifle, cause it to blow up, or cause injury due to their use! If you buy these rounds and your particular rifle functions well with them, by all means feel free to continue to use them.
cyphertext
US Veteran
Me too... CMMG for me, 15-22 for the boy... but my CMMG is the one that has had an OOB issue!
Just thought I would share as OOB does happen with other manufacturers.
Me too... CMMG for me, 15-22 for the boy... but my CMMG is the one that has had an OOB issue!
Just thought I would share as OOB does happen with other manufacturers.
Absolutely.
And I don't believe for an instant, that there has never been another OOB ever at an Appleseed event when there have been more than 28,000,000 rounds fired (their numbers based on 70000 participants who shoot 400-500 rounds at an event.)
The difference in this case is that a person was injured.
There has been a bunch of people here (former Appleseed event attendees) who have said that they are packed in very close when shooting.
That isn't S&W's fault.
Battle Born Nevada
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First post but I have viewed the form many times. It looks to me like their has been a problem with oob for many years. Gun owners don't need to stick their heads in the sand and wait for someone to lose and eye and give the anti gun people ammo. Lets be pro active and hope S&W can get to the bottom of the problem.
I've asked this person twice to elaborate on where he heard this "information" but he doesn't respond.
Has anybody else heard this same rumor?
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