THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION

[chief38]

For one, I am unable to find .45 Colt 255 grain RNFP for under $40 bucks a box OF 50. (many are sold in boxes of 20). Second, I own genuine Colt SAA revolvers that are on the older side and like to keep my "Cowboy Loads" lighter so they last as long as possible. No need to stress out old guns to put holes in paper with the amount I do shoot them.

I am unaware of any Factory loaded ammo for the .45acp with 230 grain RNL "LEAD hardball" at any price. The two indoor Clubs I belong to will not allow the use of jacketed ammo so if I want to shoot them indoors I HAVE TO re-load. I will NOT shoot others reloads. While outdoors I can shoot anything, I do not want to load two different types of ammo (Jacketed and lead).

When I used the number of $15 per box savings that was an AVERAGE PRICE. Yes you can get sale priced ammo in bulk, but it may be 130 grain or in a configuration you simply don't want. I like shooting the same exact ammo every time out of a designated gun - as I am into as much accuracy as I am capable of.

The examples and math I posted are from what is trending on the national websites and in my LGS's. If you can buy a specific load in bulk cheaper - great. The numbers I posted are real for me and most here, but if you just are not into re-loading I can understand that as well. I also reload 45-70 and 38-55 Rifle which are not only ridiculously expensive, most LGS don't even carry it! Add that into the mix above and reloading saves even more than I posted.

Reloading is NOT for everyone - I get that. There are some who would not reload even if they were GIVEN a brand new Outfit and free components. For those of us who shoot very often and are interested in a consistent ammo supply and in making that ammo as accurate and consistent as possible, reloading makes sense - assuming you have the time & desire to do so. I'm a Serious Target Shooter and like to know exactly where each one of my firearms hits and like the consistency. Hey, it works for me. .

The reason for this post was because there are MANY who are interested in getting into re-loading and I tried to be as realistic as possible. One can always pick apart a post for this or that, but in general I stand by my numbers and facts and think it's pretty accurate. YMMV.

 

[WVSig]

For one, I am unable to find .45 Colt 255 grain RNFP for under $40 bucks a box OF 50. (many are sold in boxes of 20). Second, I own genuine Colt SAA revolvers that are on the older side and like to keep my "Cowboy Loads" lighter so they last as long as possible. No need to stress out old guns to put holes in paper with the amount I do shoot them.

I am unaware of any Factory loaded ammo for the .45acp with 230 grain RNL "LEAD hardball" at any price. The two indoor Clubs I belong to will not allow the use of jacketed ammo so if I want to shoot them indoors I HAVE TO re-load. I will NOT shoot others reloads. While outdoors I can shoot anything, I do not want to load two different types of ammo (Jacketed and lead).

When I used the number of $15 per box savings that was an AVERAGE PRICE. Yes you can get sale priced ammo in bulk, but it may be 130 grain or in a configuration you simply don't want. I like shooting the same exact ammo every time out of a designated gun - as I am into as much accuracy as I am capable of.

The examples and math I posted are from what is trending on the national websites and in my LGS's. If yo can but a specific load in bulk cheaper - great. The numbers I posted are real for me and most here, but if you just are not into re-loading I can understand that as well. I also reload 45-70 and 38-55 Rifle which are not only ridiculously expensive, most LGS don;t even carry it! Add that into the mix above and reloading saves even more than I posted.

Reloading is NOT for everyone - I get that. There are some who would not reload even if they were GIVEN a brand new Outfit and free components. For those of us who shoot very often and are interested in a consistent ammo supply and in making that ammo as accurate and consistent as possible, reloading makes sense - assuming you have the time & desire to do so. I'm a Serious Target Shooter and like to know exactly where each one of my forearms hits and like the consistency. Hey, it works for me.

See now the argument is changing. Reloading makes sense for your very specific needs which are far from universal yet you proesented the case for the dollars and cents of reloading as if they were. If you are paying $20 a box for 45 ACP you are getting ripped off. You can do better than that at any big box retailer. You will be shooting 230gr but I would be willing to bet 95% of 45 ACP Shooter's are shooting 230gr loads.

Again the same tread continues when it comes to these arguments for cost savings from reloading. If you have very specific needs or requirements from your ammo or you shoot less mainstream calibers reloading makes sense on many levels but as a gerneral rule people are not going to see the savings you are claiming. That is not even taking into account the cost of labor. It will take the bag shooter a lot more than 100 boxes of ammo you calculated to recoup $1500 in reloading equipment.

Again I am not saying not to reload but what I am trying to point out is the circular reasoning used to "prove" that it saves money is not logically sound. You are cherry picking data to prove your predetermined conclusion which does not hold up to objective scrutiny.

I agree 100% that reloading makes a lot of sense for you and I hope you continue to do it and enjoy it but I guess I just don't agree that it yields universal savings when you consider time and the fact not everyone has the same ammo requirements you have.

I believe your analysis fits your individual needs and requirements but it fails as the universal truth you present it as.

 

[chief38]

OK, I guess we look at Reloading from two different points of view - to each his own, so I guess each prospective re-loader will have to decide what's best for them. My intent was in putting the numbers out there as MANY don't understand how to figure it out (initially) or what components cost in the first place.

Yes, you are correct in the fact that I am NOT including labor/time. I would not include labor/time here or with any hobby as it is one of the reasons we choose such hobbies in the first place. If I placed labor and time on how long it takes me to detail my vehicles, I'd never wash and wax them myself - but it's great exercise and gives me a great sense of pride and satisfaction to do so. Plus I do a MUCH better job

 

[Rule3]

I told my Wife that she should get a Dillion 1400 or Binford 4500 needle pointing machine.
She could save so much time and finish her crafts in minutes.!!

All that "wasted time" she spent just sitting there stitching away!

Next it should be spray paint instead of those little brushes!

 

[TomkinsSP]

Nobody asked, so I thought I would chime in...

I figure buying GOOD quality equipment is like buying a house in a good neighborhood, its not going to depreciate in value. My brass in 38 special lasts until I accidentally crush it being the first round after having forgotten to reset something, with normal loads it should last... forever.

So I figure my cost of making ammo is projectile+powder+primer, less than 10 cents a unit for .38 special. ($5.00 box of 50).

I can buy good commercial lhbwc or lswc for $21.00/box when in stock (and sometimes subject to a two or three box limit).

Considering the time I spend making ammo and that $16.00 differential I am 'paying myself' almost $60.00 an hour to make ammo.

And I could load 2.7 for gun A, 2.8 for gun B, 2.9 for gun C if I wanted to with a minimum amount of time to adjust the hopper. I can use any bullet I can find, or any powder in any combination.

And if I was just starting out and money was a concern, the SLGS (semi-local gun store, nothing is close to here) has a Lee hand press for $60.00, starline brass for $18.00/100, Lee .38 dies for $35.00, a ultrasonic cleaner for $15.00, solution for $5.00, 100 bullets for $9.50 (500 for $40) W231 or Bullseye for $22.00, S&B primers $23.00 for 1000, forgot to price a tray- lets say $5.00. So $175 for the first 100, $225 for 500, $ 385 for 1000... Already below $21.00 per box on that first thousand, you have the press, dies, cleaner, lots of powder and solution...

 

[Duckford]

The thing is, all real things are valuable, but not always interchangeable. If you buy a $2 sack of potatoes and try to sell them someone else, you may not even find a buyer at all. Stand outside with a "Will work for cash" sign or look for a part time job, and maybe nobody will hire, maybe there is a limit to your income, maybe you can't always turn time into money, and maybe money can't buy everything. Run over the curb and crush somebody's flower pot, and they claim "That was a $100 pot and flower" and how do they come up with this, cash replacement value, original cash cost value, original cash cost value plus theoretical inflation, or someone trying to convert subjective emotional damage into cash value?

The main point is working for yourself for free doesn't actually cost you a half penny, and if it saved you ANY amount of cash that you would have paid someone else, it literally means you saved money and there is no other way to literally take it any other way. Even if the savings are meager, even if you worked for a theoretical wage that is in par with 3rd world shoe makers, you can't say you lost money, you still saved money, and to say otherwise is to ignore the objective reality before us. Even if i dick around changing oil for 2 hours at a non serious pace to avoid paying the local shop $20 for the same job, and I "paid" myself $10 an hour, unless I lost a paying job with wages superior to this, it is literally impossible to claim my oil change is more expensive when one cost money and the other was free.

Its not flawed logic, its logical fallacy. Working for free for yourself is free, its a cost of time, not of money, so there is no way even logically possible to argue that it doesn't pay money. You exchanged your time to save money, it can't cost you money.

 

[Rule3]

Don't forget they want the Min Wage to be $15/hr now!!

So we must at least amortize that into our cost accounting.

Hows that for the stupidest concept? . Why not just make it $20/hr??

 

[mikld]

Costs of reloading is the last/least important factor in my reloading. I figger it's my hobby (how many people ask a musician, not professional, how much their piano costs, or a fisherman to compare the costs of his equipment vs. the cost of fish from the market?). I'm not rich, but I don't count pennies for my hobbies. If I were to count costs for reloading I would have to count shipping fees for components bought on line, I'd have to figger costs of powder purchased in 1990, or the actual costs of primers I bought on sale in 2002. Then to be accurate I'd have to figger utilities into the costs too (power for lighting, heat, CD use. Water for quenching, clean up, bottled tea for thirst quenching in a warm shop while reloading). Then there is counting times to the LGS and figgering costs of my vehicle (gas, wear and tear) and compare the times I went to the store for reloading components and the times I might go to the store for factory ammo.

Or I could just sit on my stool in front of my Co-Ax and enjoy...

 

[WVSig]

Costs of reloading is the last/least important factor in my reloading. I figger it's my hobby (how many people ask a musician, not professional, how much their piano costs, or a fisherman to compare the costs of his equipment vs. the cost of fish from the market?). I'm not rich, but I don't count pennies for my hobbies. If I were to count costs for reloading I would have to count shipping fees for components bought on line, I'd have to figger costs of powder purchased in 1990, or the actual costs of primers I bought on sale in 2002. Then to be accurate I'd have to figger utilities into the costs too (power for lighting, heat, CD use. Water for quenching, clean up, bottled tea for thirst quenching in a warm shop while reloading). Then there is counting times to the LGS and figgering costs of my vehicle (gas, wear and tear) and compare the times I went to the store for reloading components and the times I might go to the store for factory ammo.

Or I could just sit on my stool in front of my Co-Ax and enjoy...

Exactly I much prefer this to the false narrative that reloading saves everyone who does it money. I know just as many people who bought equipment hated it and sold it's a loss or never use it as people who love reloading.

If you look at it as a hobby it makes much more sense to me. I don't know about anyone else but I lose $$$ on all my hobbies. LOL

The other part that is missing from the false narrative is that most people who shoot regularly have a budget to spend on their hobby. X $$$ a month or a year can go towards a hobby like shorting. Reloading does not shrink that budget it allows you to shoot more for the same money. Actual savings in your pocket doesn't happen because you take the saving and buy more components or load and shoot more rounds. It's not like the "savings" goes into your 401k.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Reloading does not shrink that budget it allows you to shoot more for the same money. Actual savings in your pocket doesn't happen because you take the saving and buy more components or load and shoot more rounds. It's not like the "savings" goes into your 401k.

Agreed, but its lke two for one beers at the local watering hole. Sure me and my buddy could go there and have one each, my treat today his next time; what will happen is we each have two.

Technically we aren't saving a dime, just having twice as many sips. But while I don't have a hard $73.26 limit to spend on this hobby this month, I, and I think everyone does have some self-imposed limit on what they spend for anything. If you don't mind the extra effort, or if it's fun, reloading lets you do more shooting for the same coin.

And that is saving money in a sense.

 

[Sclays]

Motivation for reloading

Entering into the realm of metallic reloading is serious stuff.
An individual's motivation to reload must exceed the economic benefit.
There must be a desire for good craftsmanship.

You want to save a few bucks as well as all your fingers.

 

[Troystat]

The other reason I reload is that for bulleye shooting there are not a lot of choices for factory ammo, my 45 acp loads are loaded to a lot slower fps than most factory ammo. Even my 38 special rounds are lighter. Now for my .357's

 

[TomkinsSP]

True. Handloading requires attention to detail to be safely done..

So do many other things in life. Driving an automobile for instance. But in handloading I am responsible and I can make my work safe. Driving a car, I can be safe and someone else can kill me by being unsafe. Not in my control, but I am still dead.

I am not encouraging anyone who doesn't think handloading is for them to try it. But I am also guessing that very few "never me's" are browsing this topic.

 

[2152hq]

Good thread,,lots of interesting comments.

I look at reloading as a hobby. I'm sure most everyone here does too. Might be someone here that reloads as a business, sells the reloads commercially, pays FETax, ect. As a business, you can calculate a $/hr on your labor to produce the finished product.

But as a hobby, it's your 'free time' invested. Don't like to reload?, don't invest this available free time you have in it. Your option then is to buy ammo. Some calibers are pretty cheap,,others not.

As a hobby, I just like reloading. I like to make low pressure loads for the elderly guns I normally shoot.

It's also the only way I can get ammunition for some of the odd calibers I shoot,,by making them. I enjoy that process too. WallyWorld doesn't stock .256 Gibbs Mannlicher but I can make it rather easily.

No one pays me to reload,,I don't play games on the computer but if I did, I wouldn't expect anyone to pay me by the hr to do so either. Nor go fishing, play golf or read a book. It's what you do with your free time.

 

[ontargetagain]

Lots of good content in the posts here.
I'll add that you can get started for much less than the $1500 chief38 mentioned if you don't shoot high quantities. I have two single stage Lee presses, one dedicated to de-capping and one for all other steps. About $115 combined, carbide dies can be $35 and up based on what brand, mine are $35-60 sets. The inexpensive powder drop I have $30 really works fine with powders that meter well. Amazon for a ultrasonic cleaner takes care of deprimed brass cleaning $80 isn. I did splurge a bit on a medical digital scale, used on Ebay for $115 and well worth it. Hand primer $35.

Anyhow, for about $500 I believe you can be in business before powders, primers bullets etc. Once you get a bit of a rhythm and process down you will be pleased on how many bullets you can produce from a single stage press set up and it is a good learning curve to have control over each and every step of the process.

As mentioned it is rewarding, therapeutic and allows you to either save money or shoot more Work smart, don't allow yourself to be distracted and things will go just fine and once you make your first bullet you will have a big smile to go with it
Karl

 

[Muddyboot]

Good thread,,lots of interesting comments.

I look at reloading as a hobby. I'm sure most everyone here does too. Might be someone here that reloads as a business, sells the reloads commercially, pays FETax, ect. As a business, you can calculate a $/hr on your labor to produce the finished product.

But as a hobby, it's your 'free time' invested. Don't like to reload?, don't invest this available free time you have in it. Your option then is to buy ammo. Some calibers are pretty cheap,,others not.

As a hobby, I just like reloading. I like to make low pressure loads for the elderly guns I normally shoot.

It's also the only way I can get ammunition for some of the odd calibers I shoot,,by making them. I enjoy that process too. WallyWorld doesn't stock .256 Gibbs Mannlicher but I can make it rather easily.

No one pays me to reload,,I don't play games on the computer but if I did, I wouldn't expect anyone to pay me by the hr to do so either. Nor go fishing, play golf or read a book. It's what you do with your free time.

I got into reloading for the same reason, odd calibers, ( in my case the .41 Long Colt) Reloading is the only economical way to shoot my Army Specials in .41LC.

I do reload several other calibers now, reloading ammo brings satisfaction, and saves some money, but even if it didn't,I would still do it as a logical extension of the gun collecting/shooting hobby.

 

[mikld]

I got into reloading for less than $30.00. Lee loader, 100 CCI primers, 1 lb. Bullseye, 100 generic lead bullets. I already had a plastic mallet. I had about 200-300 range pickups for brass. Maybe someone could tell me how to figger how much money I've "saved" since summer of 1969?

 

[bananaman]

Handloads.com is a great site. There is a section for cost calculator. You can enter your component costs, and it calculates $ per round, & box. Recipes, and other neat stuff too! Bob

 

[TomkinsSP]

Referencing my earlier post on how easy/cheaply a newb could get into reloading, I got out the old Lee exercise machine and cranked out 50 on the breakfast table. Took 40 minutes start to finish using tumbled brass. (Had I used the ultrasound it MIGHT have added five minutes.) Bet a beginner could do the first 50 in twice that and by the time they had made 20 or 30 boxes be as fast as I am. I did forget to add a priming tool into the cost estimate. Maybe some extra dippers, used 0.7cc of TB and 160gr RF .358s. Midway is selling a similar cowboy load for $24.00 a box. This was $5.50 for the bullets, $1.10 for primers, $0.80 for powder, so $7.40 lets say $7.50 for a savings of $16.50 or $ 23.00 per hour.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Shot 25 of them this morning. Very accurate out of a 2 inch M36, Trailboss IMHO shoves more than kicks. Uncertain what the velocity is, faster than I can see and slower than 2400, maybe I will get one of those crony-o-grafs someday.