3913: I Just Can't Shoot this Pistol

[Ascension]

I have found that if I am not on the range regularly with my compact 3rd gens ( 3904,6904, shorty 40, TSW 4013 ect ) I have a tendency to put to much finger in the guard and will pull low left consistently with them. Takes a little time to get the groove back and then I will shoot well with them. I normally carry a 5943 DAO and shoot it often but will struggle at first when I go directly to the normal D/SA smith and pull low and left. It's a fight for a few rounds until I think about it and watch how I hit the trigger with my finger.

 

[TercGen]

Terc, You seem to have primarily been writing about dealing with the DA trigger but, given what I know about the trigger weight in SA some of this advice is going to be relevant. See immediately below.

Here's what I've decided to do:

I'm going to keep the pistol and see if I can learn how to deal with the heavy trigger. This is going to necessitate learning some new techniques but I'll stop this effort if it interferes with muscle memory on my other handguns.

Larry

Hi Larry, glad you decided to keep the 3913 and to try and adapt to it. I feel that the first DA shot is the hardest to master, but after doing so the SA shot becomes much easier, as you have already become used to the grip and built up some muscle memory. Not to mention that it is just plain easier to dry-fire practice in DA with the 3913, simply hold in place and keep pulling the trigger.

Like 18DAI mentioned, hundreds of dry-fires will really help with this pistol. The Hogue grip sleeves have been mentioned for a better grip and that's not a bad idea either, I personally like to use a strip of traction or grip tape on the back of the grips.

I own many TDA S&W 3rd Gens, but have no problem transitioning to DA Kahrs, the original Ruger LC9, or revolvers - more of an automatic adjustment with each, though I mainly practice with TDA guns . Everyone is different, but for me it seemed to expand my muscle memory rather than replace one with the other.

If you swap in the lighter Wolff mainspring, I would recommend just going down 1lb in weight, and making sure that your firing pin channel is nice and clean. I have read that one of the reasons for the stronger factory mainspring is to ensure that the firing pin makes it through any blockages with a dirty firing pin channel with enough force to set off the round. Removing the safety body and firing pin would be the best way to get things clean, but a pipe cleaner through the breach face side of the firing pin hole will work good too.

Good luck Larry, and I hope you are able to find some common ground with your 3913!

 

[flagman1776]

I don't know if there is enough thickness in these grips but on my M39-2 in 9X21 and a 1911A1... I relieved the underside of the grip panels (with a mill) and used skateboard tape on the front strap. Trimmed to fit under the grip panels edge. (Also a couple of other mongrel 22 pocket pistols I did both front & back straps.)

My old service M66-1 still wears Hogue nylon (not rubber) monogrips... there is something sophisticated about the shape. With factory service stocks, the drill was fire 2 (full house magnums) & adjust grip on the gun. With the ugly monogrip, I could rip through all 6 & have a better grip after than when i started. I don't know if there is any such for the 3913... besides it's probably a individual hand fit thing.

Best wishes.

 

[lwestatbus]

Hi Larry, glad you decided to keep the 3913 and to try and adapt to it. I feel that the first DA shot is the hardest to master, but after doing so the SA shot becomes much easier, as you have already become used to the grip and built up some muscle memory. Not to mention that it is just plain easier to dry-fire practice in DA with the 3913, simply hold in place and keep pulling the trigger.

Like 18DAI mentioned, hundreds of dry-fires will really help with this pistol. The Hogue grip sleeves have been mentioned for a better grip and that's not a bad idea either, I personally like to use a strip of traction or grip tape on the back of the grips.

I own many TDA S&W 3rd Gens, but have no problem transitioning to DA Kahrs, the original Ruger LC9, or revolvers - more of an automatic adjustment with each, though I mainly practice with TDA guns . Everyone is different, but for me it seemed to expand my muscle memory rather than replace one with the other.

If you swap in the lighter Wolff mainspring, I would recommend just going down 1lb in weight, and making sure that your firing pin channel is nice and clean. I have read that one of the reasons for the stronger factory mainspring is to ensure that the firing pin makes it through any blockages with a dirty firing pin channel with enough force to set off the round. Removing the safety body and firing pin would be the best way to get things clean, but a pipe cleaner through the breach face side of the firing pin hole will work good too.

Good luck Larry, and I hope you are able to find some common ground with your 3913!

Thanks much for the update. Still waiting on the Wolff springs to arrive. Will definitely clean out the firing pin channel but will experiment with all three spring weights in the kit just to get an idea if there is any real difference. I went ahead and invested in an inexpensive trigger pull weight scale and it is consistently recording a 7 lb trigger so I'll be able to check to see if the springs make any difference almost immediately.

I'm not too worried about the first DA shot. In a defensive situation the first shot is either going to be up close and personal and followed by several more or part of a 2-3 shot suppression effort followed by set up for more finely aimed fire if possible (or running away). IF I can improve my performance with this pistol I will ramp up my efforts to find a spurred hammer for the pistol. Numrich had one a few months ago but it is now shown as out of stock.

Thanks for the input.

 

[lwestatbus]

I have found that if I am not on the range regularly with my compact 3rd gens ( 3904,6904, shorty 40, TSW 4013 ect ) I have a tendency to put to much finger in the guard and will pull low left consistently with them. Takes a little time to get the groove back and then I will shoot well with them. I normally carry a 5943 DAO and shoot it often but will struggle at first when I go directly to the normal D/SA smith and pull low and left. It's a fight for a few rounds until I think about it and watch how I hit the trigger with my finger.

This is interesting. I did experiment with different finger placement on the trigger but it is interesting to hear that this specific issue had a specific cause and effect relationship with the same problem I'm having. Once I get my new springs in I'll try to experiment with this more systematically.

 

[email4eric]

Interested in hearing an update!

 

[foxy320]

When my dept went to Beretta 92's I carried one awhile. It fed anything, worked fine & from a rest shot great groups. When I shot it the target looked like it had been shot with a shotgun. Probably put a thousand rounds thru it & just couldn't shoot well with it. Finally went back to my grandfathered revolver

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Interesting....

Every short stack or double 9mm Smith and Wesson third gen I have owned has never fit my hand right. Hence why I no longer own a 9mm in Smith and Wesson, if you want the best 9mm on the planet then get a Hi Power. Otherwise stick to 40 cal and 45 cal 3 rd gens

 

[lwestatbus]

We Have Liftoff!!!

Interested in hearing an update!

Here it is. I can shoot it now!!!

Received my Wolff Gunsprings assortment of three different hammer springs Friday and I had also purchased my own trigger weight gauge. Wolff says the original spring on this pistol is 20 lb and the original tripped the gauge at 7 lb. I successively cycled through the 19#, 18#, and then the 17# springs but each of them still tripped the gauge at 7 lb. Bummer. But when I was dry firing with the 17# spring the trigger release just felt smoother to me. Time to hit the range.

Just returned from the range 10 minutes ago and am VERY pleased to report the pistol is now working fine for me. Left the 17# spring in since it was the last one I'd installed and I also put the trigger almost to the knuckle on my trigger finger.

My original groups were vertically on POA and slightly left. However when I really locked back my right arm (I shoot right handed) POA became POI!! Further, the trigger just felt lighter and definitely crisper despite what the scale said. I never had any of those, "When is it ever going to fire?" moments where I had to take a new breath and start over with the shot.

Just a few thoughts. Your comment about the heavy trigger and shooting a model 60 has me wondering if you are shooting your model 60 exclusively in Single Action. If this is the case set a new rule for yourself with any revolver, that is NO SINGLE ACTION SHOOTING AT LESS THAN 15 YARDS Because training with a revolver in double action is the surest method I have ever found for improving and refining trigger skills.

Took my trusty old K22 Masterpiece to the range with me on this session because of Scooter's advice. After getting reasonable groups with the 3913 I fired about 50 rounds in DA only with the K22 and focused on trigger while keeping the pistol on target. This worked surprisingly well and I learned a lot with just a few rounds. Went back to the 3913 and shot even better, including a 15 round sequence of rapid fire (3 mags of 5) with very satisfactory results. Many thanks for this advice.

For me it was just ensuring I am actuating the trigger straight back. It's so easy to move your trigger finger to the left thus pushing the shot low and left. I was once told "It doesn't matter if you pull the trigger, squeeze the trigger, jerk the trigger, yank the trigger, press the trigger or whatever...just don't move the gun when you do it!"

Thanks. This is what I really worked on with the K22 revolver and it helped with the 3913.

Thanks much to everyone with advice on some selective parts changing and cleaning (Big Shrek). Haven't tried these yet but will.

The bottom line is that I now have confidence in this pistol where I had none before. Am I ready to carry it as a self defense weapon? Not yet. I'm going to want 2-3 confirmatory range sessions with it before I'm ready for that but... If they go as well as today did then I'm in business with this.

BTW: I had no mechanical issues with the 17# spring changeout. I fired 85 rounds of Remington UMC 115gr factory ammo and the pistol worked flawlessly.

I really want to thank everyone who contributed to this discussion. For me personally this thread is the epitome of how an online community can collectively offer support and solutions to each other. I have used (or plan to use) suggestions from multiple people in this endeavor and sometimes the, "Hey, I've got that problem too," posts were supportive.

 

[silversport]

Great news and thanks for the follow up...enjoy that 3913

Bill

 

[lhump1961]

Outstanding! There's nothing like having confidence in a gun and it's absolutely necessary in a carry gun. I love my 3rd gens and carry them regularly with trust and confidence. I would wager that this experience has brought your whole game up a notch. Tip of the hat to you for seeing it through and not just blaming the gun...after all shooting well is a skill we all continue to work on. Lord knows I could use some more practice! Excellent thread.

 

[flagman1776]

Have you considered a single stack series? There are lots who never like the double stacks. The only one I own is a 6946... the grip feels different on that one... the rest are single stacks.

 

[lwestatbus]

Have you considered a single stack series? There are lots who never like the double stacks. The only one I own is a 6946... the grip feels different on that one... the rest are single stacks.

The 3913 is a single stack with an 8+1 capacity. I also own a 6906 which is a double stack. The 3913 grip is odd as it seems to be longer in proportion from front to back than other handguns I own but the main problem I've had with the 3913, now solved, was the very heavy trigger break.