Colonel
Member
Maybe you need the New York or Massachusetts trigger installed? When I got my first Glock, I was nervous about a AD/ND so I had the NY 1 trigger installed. The extra trigger stiffness gave ME the comfort level for a CCW pistol.
Trigger pull too light
- Thread starter 5150ds
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northbay shooter
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Unless you really want to send it back to S&W, you can simply purchase another factory spring from them or an authorized reseller (if your department would allow) then have your department armorer install it. You could wait for the install since it is pretty quick. The spring is only about $3.00
Rastoff
US Veteran
Yeah? What would that situation be?
Any situation where you are faced with a potential deadly threat in which there would be very little time to react. Essentially a standoff at close-quarters or someone moving towards you from distance, especially when involving contact weapons. If I can persuade him to leave without shooting, all the better as far as I'm concerned.
The robotic, structured range practice that so many have limited themselves to resembles an actual armed defense encounter about as closely as the robotic, structured kata, kihon and kumite of the traditional karate dojo resembles an actual unarmed fight.
flyboydanmke
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How about any situation where a high level show of force is needing to end or dampen a situation before it gets out of control and possibly hurts someone. But then again no one is sitting there with their finger on the trigger until it's needed.
CBStuard
Member
There is no point in going through a never ending discussion on trigger weights here. The OP's dept. has rules he has to follow. No one's opinion matters. They don't care.
I'm a retired LE range officer and armorer and I understand your situation and concerns. Forget all this Ayoob and European studies BS and concentrate on the specific set of requirements you need to meet. Go straight to Smith and Wesson and ask for somebody in the LE Sales or Gunsmith section. I had a contact there 6-7 years ago but the way corporate operates they may have been reassigned.
I like a lighter trigger pull on a handgun with a safety...like my SR1911CMD (grip safety, thumb safety) and Shield 45 (thumb safety) both of which are about 4.5 lbs. If my handgun doesn't have a safety, then I do prefer a heavier trigger. A lot of people complain about the SDVE triggers, but I like them...not particularly at the range, but for self/home defense.
I bought a Bersa BP9CC when they first came out, and the trigger pull couldn't have been more than 3 lbs on it, stock. with no safety, it was too scary to carry...so I traded it.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it until it is implemented, if it ever is. Things may change before then, and you may even have a different pistol by the time it comes into effect, if it ever does.
Chubbo
Member
Absurd Rules
In my estimation, limiting the, trigger pull weight, to a heavy weight, to keep a poorly trained person, from accidentally shooting themselves, or a, perceived threatening person, is absurd! It is akin to dulling a razor sharp knife to protect an unskilled knife user, from cutting themselves or others, with a knife, that's too sharp. I think It would be much better, to train the users of efficient guns, and knives, in their use, than to render the devices inefficient, to fit it to the skill of the user. If these unreasonable limit settings escalate, we may soon be required to use, both forefingers, a pry bar, or a block & tackle, just to legally, pull the trigger of our defense weapon. I think, if we admit it, that we all know, how that will effect the the speed, and accuracy, of our defensive shooting.
Chubbo
In my estimation, limiting the, trigger pull weight, to a heavy weight, to keep a poorly trained person, from accidentally shooting themselves, or a, perceived threatening person, is absurd! It is akin to dulling a razor sharp knife to protect an unskilled knife user, from cutting themselves or others, with a knife, that's too sharp. I think It would be much better, to train the users of efficient guns, and knives, in their use, than to render the devices inefficient, to fit it to the skill of the user. If these unreasonable limit settings escalate, we may soon be required to use, both forefingers, a pry bar, or a block & tackle, just to legally, pull the trigger of our defense weapon. I think, if we admit it, that we all know, how that will effect the the speed, and accuracy, of our defensive shooting.
Chubbo
Have you seen the lawyer warnings that adorn most products nowadays? Most warn of things anyone with a microgram of common sense would know not to do anyway. We can thank unscrupulous lawyers and idiotic courts for this, and it seems to be getting worse. Years ago, if you spilled hot coffee in your lap, you'd go home and change your pants, being embarrassed about your clumsiness...now, you get rich suing someone who should have known you were too stupid and careless to drink coffee without soiling yourself.
Richard Simmons
Member
Maybe I missed something but why would a trigger pull that doesn't meet your departments particular requirement be a warranty issue for S&W? Does S&W specify an exact trigger pull or range for the trigger pull and yours is outside of that range/factory spec?
Richard Simmons
Member
Unfortunately in some places that "high level show of force" may get one charged with brandishing.
By the way this is the first time I've seen that term used. Something new?
Poorly trained? It could be said that anyone lacking ability to fire a double-action handgun is poorly trained since they don't understand how to pull a trigger. I believe Massad Ayoob has said something very similar to that. Mas also installs NY triggers in all his carry Glocks. Is he compensating for being poorly trained or perhaps could he possibly understand the realities of real-world defense scenarios a little better than most.
And what does proper training consist of? How many on this forum have it? Like I stated in post #25, real-world defense encounters have very little in common with what most people do at range. That fact is very easily learned studying video footage of actual events, but especially by engaging in Force-on-Force training. All those precise movements and picture perfect stances quickly go out the window. Many find all those repetitions they did to build "muscle memory" simply don't apply. It's much like the karate black belt who believes he is well prepared after having spent years honing his skills in the dojo only to find out the hard way that much of what he learned isn't effective in the street.
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S&W can make that decision.
Rastoff
US Veteran
But here you have a deadly threat. If you shoot that deadly threat, you're justified. If the threat isn't deadly, or at least potentially causing great bodily harm, why are you pointing your gun at it?
If a "show of force" is necessary holding the gun at the ready should be enough. And while we're at it, what would a situation be for a civilian where this show of force is necessary?
Because I don't want to shoot someone if I don't have to.
An example would be someone walking towards you with a knife or metal pipe in their hand. You draw your weapon and command them to stop, but they keep coming. When they get to a certain point, I'm going to point my weapon at them since they could suddenly accelerate their advance and there will be little time to react, plus I know it may take multiple shots to stop them before they reach me.
I've been in a couple of situations exactly like that. I didn't have a gun since I was under age to carry, but I did have an ASP and a blade and both scenarios were resolved without conflict. If I would have had a gun and everything down in the same manner as they did, I would have pointed the gun at them once they crossed a certain point without firing giving them a chance to stop their movement toward me.
Another example would be confronting an intruder in the home. Some sort of standoff situation where he's not advancing or attacking, but refuses to leave. I'd keep my gun pointed at him the whole time until police arrive.
