The evidence locker

[ladder13]

Age old discussion on what gun to carry for self defense

American Rifleman | Sheriff's Tips: Don't Buy Expensive Defense Guns?

 

[daddy bear]

I haven't looked at the article, but agree. A scruffy but dependable arm is desirable. If you have to use it, it will be tied up in evidence for a long period of time and realistically, it my never be returned. Judges have way too much discretion with our stuff.

 

[petepeterson]

I like the vehicle analogy. I don't drive a beater because I might wreck. I would think you're statistically more likely to be in an auto accident than a defensive shooting. At least for now...

 

[blues7]

My perspective is to carry the firearm you feel comfortable with, shoot well, know how to clear a malfunction with and are able to properly conceal.

If protecting your life or that of a loved one isn't worth carrying a "better" firearm, and at least equal to the value of sitting in your home admiring such a firearm or taking it to the range...then I humbly submit that your perspective is *** backward.

Sure, it would suck to have an expensive firearm seized as evidence. But not as bad as losing a gunfight when all the chips were on the line.

What's your life worth?

(Fortunately, I don't own any pistols worth more than several hundred dollars, (S&W and Glocks), so I carry without fear of remorse.

 

[Old cop]

I understand the logic and that's the reason I no longer carry my 1968 Colt Cobra. It was my first off duty gun and I want it to stay in the family, plus I know what happens to guns that are relegated to the evidence room in police HQ.

 

[BigSky!]

Because, as small as the probability may be, I may be involved in a self-defense incident someday, I only carry firearms in which I have the utmost confidence and as well "equipped" as possible. If, heaven forbid, I'm ever involved in a self-defense shooting, the last thing that will be on my mind (or should be) is the value of my confiscated firearm or whether I may get it back. We should all be so lucky as to survive such a situation and then be alive and able to deal with such concerns.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I like the vehicle analogy. I don't drive a beater because I might wreck. I would think you're statistically more likely to be in an auto accident than a defensive shooting. At least for now...

For me, the vehicle analogy seems more similar than different. The couple guys I know that have collectible cars don't drive them in bad weather. They don't typically drive them to work. They have a regular car for every day use. The collectibles get driven, but the owners are pretty selective about when.

 

[petepeterson]

I think folks equate "inexpensive" with "unreliable."

I've been fortunate to not have many unreliable firearms, and the few I've had, I've given up.

Two of the most reliable handguns I own are 3rd Gen Smiths, that were both purchased for $300 or less. This would not be a financial setback if they were confiscated, but I don't feel I'm giving up any reliability in the process. I imagine the same could be said about a used Glock, or other modern pistol.

 

[blues7]

I think folks equate "inexpensive" with "unreliable."

I've been fortunate to not have many unreliable firearms, and the few I've had, I've given up.

Two of the most reliable handguns I own are 3rd Gen Smiths, that were both purchased for $300 or less. This would not be a financial setback if they were confiscated, but I don't feel I'm giving up any reliability in the process. I imagine the same could be said about a used Glock, or other modern pistol.

If I were to lose either of the two Glocks I regularly carry concealed, the pain of loss would be less financial and more nostalgic from the point of view of having carried each while still working in federal law enforcement.

I agree with you that less expensive does not equate to unreliability. I've trusted my life to S&W and Glock handguns for most all of my adult life.

 

[Krogen]

It's simple. Just don't carry an heirloom or a collectors' item you don't want to lose. Be prepared to give up the firearm that protected your life. Carry a gun you trust and can shoot well. It's not that different than a totaled car that activated its crumple zones and blew its airbags to save your hide.

 

[Tom K]

What about the times I've read about when someone is arrested, and the cops come to their house and confiscate all their guns? Torch open their safe and dump everything on the floor and toss them like firewood into piles for the news cameras? Doesn't matter that they've all museum grade pre-war Smiths and Colts, or custom engraved double rifles, or KelTecs. "The suspect had an arsenal in his suburban home. The neighbors had no idea and were shocked."

If you are arrested for a capital crime, expect to have all of your guns confiscated and treated like junk.

 

[Rpg]

My Colt 1911's have all had significant work done at significant cost. The work enhances their utility to me.

They're also the guns I shoot best and use daily.

I'd prefer not to lose one, but if I have to use one losing it to a police property room isn't a concern.

 

[Xfuzz]

If it saves you or a loved one it is money well spent.
If it gets tagged...
Go to your safe and pick out another one.

I'm digging that Hi-Power in the article..

 

[Jessie]

Either way you choose, why does it have to be this way with our property?
I mean after all, aren't we innocent until proven guilty of something. Shouldn't there be some modicum of accountability for our property while it's under the authorities control?
If not, there certainly should be.
It shows a lack of respect otherwise.

 

[federali]

However...

If that shooting in self-defense happens in your home, expect the investigators to take all your guns as a seasoned investigator will not take your word for it regarding which gun you used. They don't like surprises on the witness stand that could have been avoided.

 

[dben002]

If that shooting in self-defense happens in your home, expect the investigators to take all your guns as a seasoned investigator will not take your word for it regarding which gun you used. They don't like surprises on the witness stand that could have been avoided.

Exactly....that's why they won't find mine..there hidden in plain sight, right behind the wall mural in the family room..

 

[ispcapt]

Either way you choose, why does it have to be this way with our property?
I mean after all, aren't we innocent until proven guilty of something. Shouldn't there be some modicum of accountability for our property while it's under the authorities control?
If not, there certainly should be.
It shows a lack of respect otherwise.

A firearm seized as evidence is not cleaned before placed in evidence. It's not wiped down. It's not oiled. It's placed in evidence just as it was recovered. If it's got blood on it then blood is going to stay on it. If you want to find out what blood does to steel and blueing the take one of your guns, apply blood and let it set for a few months. However a gun, or any evidence, is recovered from the scene is the way it goes into evidence. To do otherwise is altering evidence.
There's a very good reason for all of that. It's evidence. Case in point. There was a shooting in a very small town 4 miles from me. The COP was friends with the accused family members. When he arrived on scene he was told grandma shot her granddaughter's ex-husband. He recovers the gun which has blood on it and also fingerprints and he cleans it. Later on there's speculation grandma wasn't the one who did the shooting but it was the ex-wife and grandma just took the fall for it. The COP's incompetence caused a major stir clear into the IL legislature which passed a bill that no LEO can be in charge of a homicide investigation unless they had first received specific training. The initial bill was a lot more restrictive. It was to prevent any police dept in any town less that 5000 population (IIRC the pop limit) from doing any homicide investigations.
As far as the article and not carrying expensive guns, some people are really not comprehending what it's about. You can tell that by the comments. "What's your life worth?" The article is not about carrying anything unreliable. It's not about carrying a HiPoint or a Raven. For example - Glock is a pretty cheap gun. If yours gets placed in evidence there are a bunch of others just like it, $500 +/- and you've got a gun just like the one you have in evidence. Your $3000 Les Baer custom gun or $5000 nickle Colt Python goes into evidence you may not find another one like it as replacement and when you do it's going to cost you a lot more than that Glock. Will that Les Baer do the job better than the Glock?

If you are arrested for a capital crime, expect to have all of your guns confiscated and treated like junk.

If you're arrested for a capital crime then you've got a lot more to worry about than if your guns are confiscated. As the old Dodge commercial sheriff use to say "You in a heap of trouble boy."

 

[TomkinsSP]

It depends on definitions: Is an "expensive gun" a very nice 637 or a pristine 1970's 37 or a low number alloy cylinder Bodyguard? Is an "inexpensive gun" a Jennings? a Rohr? a newish Charter Off Duty? Obviously we don't carry 'Grandaddy's Victory from when he was a guard at Grumman out on the Island during the war'.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Exactly....that's why they won't find mine..there hidden in plain sight, right behind the wall mural in the family room..

Now he will...

 

[ken158]

Either way you choose, why does it have to be this way with our property?
I mean after all, aren't we innocent until proven guilty of something. Shouldn't there be some modicum of accountability for our property while it's under the authorities control?
If not, there certainly should be.
It shows a lack of respect otherwise.

It is property, and in an investigation where an individual was threatened, harmed or killed, the investigation will prevail over someone's feeling being hurt because the police took a firearm for safe keeping, evidence or potential evidence of a crime. It is this way to preserve the chain of evidence and to prevent the police having to return to a scene looking for something that now may be missing... It will be documented and preserved for possible laboratory analysis as seen fit. This does not include a wipe down with an oily rag (which would destroy potential evidence). This is the modicum of accountability you speak of... Based on the outcome of the situation, a decision will be made by a prosecutor or judge as what to do with the firearm and it will be made according to the law. If you have heartache over some prized firearm being seized then maybe you should have considered that possibility before it was subjected to that possibility. This is the respect (of the law)you speak of. As far as being innocent until proven guilty - that is why investigations are conducted. If you are innocent, your rights were preserved, if you are guilty, then someone else's rights were preserved.