S&W, Ruger, Colt, which AR-15?

[sgtsandman]

Man, it was a lot easier when gunny had the amorer give us what we got. No thought just grab and learn. But now I have to buy and retrain. Where to start? I'd like to know that my choice would be more than a weekend toy. What if we needed a REAL 5.56 to hold up?

They are all good firearms made from good companies. Get the one with the best price and the features you want the rifle to have. Don't get into the weeds with milspec vs commercial. Just know which your rifle is built to and act accordingly if and/or when you go to buy upgrades for it.

 

[samnev]

I have a S&W MP15, a Ruger SR556 and a Colt 6920. I don'e see much of a difference in accuracy or reliability between the 3. As previously mentioned the Colt would hold its value better and easier to sell if you need $$$. So I'd go with a Colt 6920.

 

[Riverboys]

I would choose a pistol caliber carbine with a foldable light weight stock.

I agree. I bought the Ruger PC carbine because of 9mm. Cheap and fun. There are many others to choose from - see above.

I shoot it more than my AR. That may be because I feel comfortable shooting the 9mm carbine in my back yard and I have to drive to shoot the AR.
My longest range is about 100 yards.

 

[WR Moore]

I used AR pattern rifles by whatever maker my employers were buying and used them as issued for decades in an environment several makers considered abusive. This included Colt HBAR, 6920 and S&W M&P15.

Colt has, hands down (unless they've changed), absolutely the worst warranty & warranty service in the industry (at least for rifles). My experience over the time noted above is that they do indeed have parts that break. When they break, you get to keep all the pieces, no extra charge. They're also right proud of those parts when you buy replacements.

The M&P15 ran right alongside the Colt. Any parts that broke were cheerfully replaced and certain issues didn't crop up like they did with the products of the Prancing Pony. See below for one.

No experience with the Ruger, the piston gun uses several parts that are proprietary to Ruger.

As noted above, unless you plan on shooting tracers or long, heavy match bullets, 1-9 twist works very well and actually is more accurate with bullets in the 50-62 gr weight range than 1-7. BTW, with the Colts and 1-7 twist, we experienced jacket failure at a massive rate with 55 gr expanding bullets. Bullets would come apart on the way down range. We sent exemplar rifles & ammo to the ammo company and they suggested specific ammo with thicker jackets. Colt quite naturally blamed the ammo company. YMMV.

 

[Eric300]

Yet, I'll bet none of them are really "mill spec" guns. That term gets thrown out a lot, but rarely is true. For example, if none of them have a BURST selection, are they really "mill spec"?

The term 'MilSpec' Has very little, if anything at all, to do with what fire control group is in the weapon. Military Specification(s) refers to just that, not whether it's full-auto, or, burst fire.

 

[cyphertext]

The term 'MilSpec' Has very little, if anything at all, to do with what fire control group is in the weapon. Military Specification(s) refers to just that, not whether it's full-auto, or, burst fire.

The point is that the M4 specifications call for the rifle to have either burst capability (M4), or full auto (M4A1). There is not a military specification for an AR-15 built for the commercial market.

 

[Eric300]

The point is that the M4 specifications call for the rifle to have either burst capability (M4), or full auto (M4A1). There is not a military specification for an AR-15 built for the commercial market.

Except for maybe the bolt, bolt carrier (FA), barrel, buffer, extension tube (milspec v commercial). Sooooo……..

 

[just plain joe]

I have run a Noveske 10.5 CQB (hard) since 2008. I have shot out the barrel twice. It runs like a sewing machine. Their QA/QC is second-to-none.

When I was working, I had a Colt 6920 set up similar to my Noveske for the sake of redundancy. I don't have as many rounds down range with it but have run it for about eight years. No problems with it either.

When I attended carbine classes at other agencies and participated in our own agency's quals as well as that of our regional team, many of the officers/operators utilized Colts, BCM, LMT, and Daniel Defense. In law enforcement we call that a "clue".

I won't comment on other manufacturers (good or bad), as I have no experience with them. If you intend to stake your life or that of others on your rifle, consider a quality platform.

A fellow operator once asked me what I paid for the Noveske. When I told him he cringed and implied that I had overspent for my work carbine. I recall his carbine choice, which I won't mention here. After about 200 rounds of a harsh firing schedule one day, his carbine went south. I wouldn't walk across the street for one since then. Buy cheap, buy twice.

HTH.

JPJ

 

[Ackley1952]

Well once again nothing accomplished or conclusion made . Point is if you want a Colt you better be rounding it up now unless you'll be happy with a used one.

 

[cyphertext]

Except for maybe the bolt, bolt carrier (FA), barrel, buffer, extension tube (milspec v commercial). Sooooo……..

Nope... None of those parts go through a government inspection when put into a commercial rifle. Mil-spec defines those inspections and processes, and if it doesn't go through the government inspection process, it does not meet "mil-spec". May be buit to the same dimensions, out of the same materials, but it is not mil-spec by definition.

Ask Colt, they will tell you that their civilian rifles are not mil-spec.

 

[Hapworth]

Nope... None of those parts go through a government inspection when put into a commercial rifle. Mil-spec defines those inspections and processes, and if it doesn't go through the government inspection process, it does not meet "mil-spec". May be buit to the same dimensions, out of the same materials, but it is not mil-spec by definition.

Ask Colt, they will tell you that their civilian rifles are not mil-spec.

It's my understanding that Colt's civvy and .mil AR-15s/M4s are identical save for select-fire and 16.1" versus 14.5" barrels. Same parts, same builders, same work area.

If correct, it seems that only by pedantic standards are the Colt ARs not mil-spec, owing to no government inspection; in every respect that counts -- kind and quality of parts and build -- they're mil-spec.

 

[cyphertext]

It's my understanding that Colt's civvy and .mil AR-15s/M4s are identical save for select-fire and 16.1" versus 14.5" barrels. Same parts, same builders, same work area.

If correct, it seems that only by pedantic standards are the Colt ARs not mil-spec, owing to no government inspection; in every respect that counts -- kind and quality of parts and build -- they're mil-spec.

No, you either meet the standard, or you don't. At one time, Colt production lines were seperate. I don't know if that is still true, but they do list seperate divisions on their web site. The mil-spec processes are very well documented, with certain requirments and inspections to insure the requirments are met. It is quite possible that Colt has different standards for their civilian rifles. Is it not possible that a part that does not meet the standard for a government rifle still very well could be used in a rifle produced for the civilian market? Kinda like back in the day when you could purchase a 486DX processor, or a 486SX processor... The SX processor did not meet the requirements of the DX processor, but was deemed still acceptable for many applications.

 

[JJEH]

I used to be a member of the M4 online forum but stopped going there a long time ago. I'm sure you'll find great info over there but I won't look. I got called out by ppl for buying an American Spirit Arms M4 which was not to mil-spec according to some ppl at the M4 forum.

First, I did a factory tour with the previous owners and it's a top notch facility that produces quality parts. Ownership changed and I know nothing about them.

Second, what if I don't like mil-spec? Why should I be hung up on mil-spec when I can get better?

Apparently there's differences in the barrel cut, the stock buffer, the "F" stamped front sight (omg, how dare you NOT getting a "F" stamped front sight on your AR15, you must be an imposter), etc.

Who cares? Get with a reputable manufacturer, choose your specs and don't let ppl on the internet tell you what you need.

 

[bamashooter]

Of the 3 listed by the OP:

I have never owned a M&P AR. Have quite a bit of time with them dialing them in for other folks.

Same applies to the Ruger.

Have handled several Colts and own a LE6920-R Trooper and a couple of lowers. (Colts always had the crappiest triggers less my latest lower for some reason)

Colts have always been gtg.

Rugers were ok but some always seemed to have slop somewhere, for example, a sloppy, loose selector switch. Easy enough fixes but should be unnecessary.

M&Ps were always good to go. Their quality actually stood out to me.

Based on my experiences and "bang for buck", I'd recommend the S&W. I don't see the 1:9 twist as a deal stopper unless you have a need for mid-70gr or heavier stuff.

 

[cyphertext]

Have handled several Colts and own a LE6920-R Trooper

This one deserves a look if in the market.

 

[bamashooter]

This one deserves a look if in the market.

I really like it. Purchased new in Oct / Nov 2017 for low 700s. Seems like more than a handful of folks opt'ed to spend more and go with the Colt CCU.

 

[JaPes]

1:8 5R progressive gain twist is the best. Cyphertext knows.

I'd like to know that my choice would be more than a weekend toy.

1. Determine your overall budget. AR-15's can become a never-ending $$$ black hole. Make sure you include:

• Base price of rifle.
• A case. You'll need something to transport to and from the range.
• If the rifle does not include them, old fashioned "iron" sights.
• A sling.
• Extra mags.
• Ammo. Pointless to blow your wad and not have anything left for ammo.
• Cleaning kit.

This gets you to the range and plinking. There are lots of options to fit your overall budget.

2. Close your eyes and envision the AR-15. Purchase a factory complete rifle that is equipped as many features you envision that fits within your budget.

3. Purchase a factory complete rifle from a well known large manufacturer, that is financially stable, who has the resources to back up their warranty. S&W, Colt, Ruger, Sig, BCM, etc.


Optional / Eventual:

A.) Trigger upgrade. This is one of two of the most useful upgrades to a rifle.

B.) Red Dot Optic. Since your goal is "not a weekend toy", you'll most likely mount an optic. This means Aimpoint, EoTech, Trijicon. A proven quality optic is one of the two most useful upgrades to a rifle.

Cleaning Supplies:

Cyphertext can validate. I was an obsessive cleaning nut-job. I bought every darn tool, solvent, lube, grease, etc. Nowadays, I use an Otis flexible rod cleaning kit, a bore snake, Breakfree CLP, cotton patches, and rags. I learned my lesson. I keep it quick and simple now.

 

[cyphertext]

1:8 5R progressive gain twist is the best. Cyphertext knows.

Yeah, a few of us bought into that marketing back in the day!

 

[noro]

Louis,

With regard to the original 3 choices, I'd urge you to first see how
much your budget allows, then check out all in the info you can.

Should you decide to buy on line, check out the reviews. Should
you buy LGS, check them out in person. Perhaps one feature will stand out that you really like. For the most part, S&W and Ruger
are very close in price for their basic models with Colt running higher. All 3 are quality weapons.

You're not asking about homebuilt options or other manufacturers from what I understand from the original post, nor are you asking about twist rates or mil-spec parts.

 

[louisq]

Colt 6920 or A4 rifle, Bravo Company (BCM), Barnes Precision, FN. All are gtg. I suggest building your own so that you have a working knowledge of the system.

I've really thought long and hard about just that, but given the suggestion that a $600 purchase might provide a reliable platform to be shooting and learning those mechanics immediately has some merit. However I do grasp the importance of knowing a build well enough to be able to build. I've never owned a firearm I couldn't assemble and disassemble. That seems foolish ownership in my mind. Oops, probably preaching to the choir here.

Someone called this a rabbit hole, but I'm certainly thankful for the direction this has taken.

Next I need to have the Glock vs M&P discussion, in a new thread!