Trapdoor Springfields?

[DWalt]

It is not true that only black powder can be used for reloading. Reloading manuals are full of smokeless powder recipes that are perfectly safe to use in Trapdoor rifles and carbines, usually faster powders. Pyrodex also works well. I have found mine shoots very well using Pyrodex.

There are also reloading recipes made for use in more modern rifles, and those are too hot for use in Trapdoors.

 

[V1 Rotate]

My Grand Dad bought one from Bannermans when they came from Missouri and homesteaded in Wyoming


He thought he might need a gun for Indians and outlaws etc.
He put it in the saddle room in the barn where it remained unfired for 40 years.
When they abandoned the homestead and moved to town my Dad and I were going through the buildings and I found the rifle. It was in sad shape.

I was 4 years old, my Dad put it away in a closet and it was forgotten.

I found it again when I was in college, but wasn't in a position to do anything with it. So it remained in the closet until my folks retired to town and my wife and I left LE and moved out to the ranch.

I found the old rifle again. This time I did something with it. I got an unfired rifle barrel to replace the rusted one and cut it down a wee mite. Pillar mounted and free floated the barrel. I got a sporter stock from Rhinehart-Fajen and replaced the old military stock.

This is the result. I have taken antelope, mule deer, and an elk with it.
It's my favorite rifle.

Iggy has shown this picture several times and I absolutely never get tired of looking at it. Thanks Iggy!

 

[smoothshooter]

You can buy a good original for about what a repro costs.
If there are any bore condition issues, sent it to the widely acclaimed Bobby Hoyt of Freischutz Shop fame for a barrel reline job and it will shoot like a new gun.

The original will have better workmanship and appreciate in value while the pedersoli won't

 

[mmaher94087]

Tulsa, Oklahoma, ca. 1958. My father and I would ride the bus into the city center to a pawn shop. There, my father would sort through two wood barrels of old trapdoors and pick the one he liked. When asked about the guns functioning, the owner would grab a round out of another barrel and head to the backroom of the store. The next sound was "Fire in the hole!" quickly followed by the biggest boom the world had ever heard. There was another hole in the floor. After the smoke cleared, the owner would ask my father if that was a good test of the rifle as he handed it to him. I proudly walked back to the buss stop with the rifle over my shoulder so we could ride back home.

 

[spad124]

I have an 1873 model infantry rifle built in 1884 that I inherited from my brother. I also have a bayonet and scabbard. Overall it’s in excellent condition and has an excellent bore. One former user marked his name on the but, “ I E Shaw”. He also identified a Kansas regiment, the 22nd, I believe. (I’m not close to the gun right now). I checked with the historian for the Kansas National Guard and he was able to find a Corporal Ira E Shaw of the same regiment as noted on the stock of my gun who was mustered in for the Spanish American War. Researching the unit in 1898, the regiment was mustered in and sent to the DC area for training. Sounds like the Kansas boys put more effort into raising hell in DC than they actually put into military training. The regiment was mustered out and sent home after a couple of months. But it’s great to know the history of the rifle.

 

[JayFramer]

Guys thanks so much!! Do the original carbines command a premium over the rifles? Really desiring a carbine...

 

[Drm50]

I have fired several originals all infantry versions and a few sporterized jobs. Trap doors started out as breech loading conversion for Muzzel loader. The originals shouldn't be shot with any thing other than duplication of BP loading. Most cases they do best with lead bullets. Factory loads had be geared to allow using them in the old BP rifles. With
45/70 making a big comeback and all kind of buffalo loads being sold, be careful what you are shoving in it.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I have a few in my collection -

An 1866 rifle
An 1868 rifle
An 1879 rifle
An 1879 carbine
An 1884 rifle (with ramrod bayonet)

Here's a pic of my Model 1866 (2nd Allin conversion), in .50/70 caliber. I have to load my own ammo for this one and the Model 1868 which followed it.

Here's one of my favorites - an 1879 cavalry carbine.

I've shot all of 'em with moderate smokeless powder loads - it's like holding history in your hands, for sure.

John

 

[22lrfan]

This is a several year old photo of mine.
Model 1870 .50-70 rifle made in 1870
Model 1884 .45-70 rifle made in 1887
Model 1884 .45-70 carbine made in 1885.
Remington Rolling Block, .43 Spanish made in 1879.
I load black powder ammo for all of them. The Remington has a slip-on recoil pad and an ammo sleeve on it because I had been hunting with it. I periodically see rifles in pawn shops but I haven't seen a carbine in a long time.

 

[jpage]

I have a few in my collection -

An 1866 rifle
An 1868 rifle
An 1879 rifle
An 1879 carbine
An 1884 rifle (with ramrod bayonet)

Here's a pic of my Model 1866 (2nd Allin conversion), in .50/70 caliber. I have to load my own ammo for this one and the Model 1868 which followed it.

That carbine is spectacular .

Here's one of my favorites - an 1879 cavalry carbine.

I've shot all of 'em with moderate smokeless powder loads - it's like holding history in your hands, for sure.

John

That carbine is looks like it was made yesterday.

 

[jpage]

I have fired several originals all infantry versions and a few sporterized jobs. Trap doors started out as breech loading conversion for Muzzel loader. The originals shouldn't be shot with any thing other than duplication of BP loading. Most cases they do best with lead bullets. Factory loads had be geared to allow using them in the old BP rifles. With
45/70 making a big comeback and all kind of buffalo loads being sold, be careful what you are shoving in it.

Thought I remembered something about the cavalry using .45-55 ?

 

[JayFramer]

Can these guns fire the Buffalo Bore high velocity ammo? I assume the repros can. Thoughts?

 

[cpt-t]

I have a original Springfield Trapdoor 1878 Model Rifle in 45/70 with a 32 1/2 inch barrel. I have been told they called this model a Long Tom Model. My best friend and the best shooting partner I ever had. Gave it to me just before He passed away. It is in very good shape and shoots extremely well out passed 200 yds. The load I use in it is 35grs of IMR3031 with a 405gr Hardcast LRNFP Bullet. The gun is just a hoot to shoot, but I don`t shoot it all that often. I am very worried I might damage it in some way, for I am not sure I should be shooting it at all.
ken

 

[DWalt]

Guys thanks so much!! Do the original carbines command a premium over the rifles? Really desiring a carbine...

Do they ever. Especially if you find one from the Little Big Horn era. Just because one looks like a carbine, it may not be. Many rifles were cut back to resemble carbines. They can fool someone who doesn't know what to look for. Easy to spot by someone who knows carbines. Not all these "spurious" carbines were made with an intent to defraud. At one time rifles were cheap, and many rifle owners just "sporterized" them into carbines with a hacksaw.

I once found one of the "sporterized" trapdoor carbines in a museum display which was identified as an original carbine. I pointed out the fallacy and it was removed from display. Did the same thing regarding a Krag carbine in the same museum, also removed from display. Both guns had probably been there in the display case for many years with no one noticing the obvious discrepancies.

There was a great deal of interesting ammunition development performed at Frankford Arsenal during the time period the trapdoor was in U. S. military service, but that's a story for another time.

 

[Muley Gil]

Can these guns fire the Buffalo Bore high velocity ammo? I assume the repros can. Thoughts?

NO!!!!! Not the originals OR the repos. I like trapdoors, I have owned several, but they are a weak action.


The rifles used .45-70-405 (bullet weight). Then the Army increased the rifle bullet weight to 500 grains. Some of this ammo was fired in carbines, but I don't think it was on purpose.

The Army did go to the .45-55-405 load for carbines.

"I have been told they called this model a Long Tom Model."

Don't know why the soldiers would call them that. The trapdoor rifles were about 7" shorter than the 1861 and 1863 rifle muskets that they replaced. Infantry carried the rifles and cavalry carried the carbines.

 

[JayFramer]

I see! I think I heard the Sharps can use the hot ammo. Doesn't seem the case for the Trapdoor. Not a problem, will stick to light loads and black powder reloads.

So guys, the Pedersoli carbine is about $1350 from most sources. How expensive are the original carbines in shootable shape? Do not need or desire a top specimen, just one that shoots decently and is stable.

Thoughts?

 

[StrawHat]

Can these guns fire the Buffalo Bore high velocity ammo? I assume the repros can. Thoughts?

I do not have the specs for the BB loads but check with them. They should know better than anyone.

IMO, no, the originals were designed for blackpowder and using original loads can shoot through most game animals. I load for an45/70 and a 50/70, Blackpowder and lead. It certainly does the trick.

Sorry, did not see this was answered by Miley Gil.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

...So guys, the Pedersoli carbine is about $1350 from most sources. How expensive are the original carbines in shootable shape? Do not need or desire a top specimen, just one that shoots decently and is stable

Thoughts?...

For that kind of money you can buy a very good specimen.

Check out this website for most anything you need to know about the Springfield Singleshot Breechloading Rifle.

The U.S. Springfield Trapdoor Rifle Information Center

Kevin

 

[JayFramer]

For that kind of money you can buy a very good specimen.

Check out this website for most anything you need to know about the Springfield Singleshot Breechloading Rifle.

The U.S. Springfield Trapdoor Rifle Information Center

Kevin

Even a carbine? Oh! That would be ideal!!

 

[Old Corp]

Still have the 1884 Trapdoor rifle given to me by a lady friend of my Mom.

This lady owned a few lower-end rental houses and had seen kids dragging around 'some big ol' gun' that a prior tenant had left at one of the houses.
I was about 13-14 and on my way to being a full-fledged gun geek.
Still have the carton of the first box of ammo I bought for it, 'Peters' 405 gr SP.
I had been messing with black powder cap and ball repro revolvers for a little while and devoured every Dixie Gun Works Catalog I could get.
Read a piece in one of them by Turner Kirkland about simple reloading using cases, an icepick and lead round balls.

I started doing that since I couldn't afford buying commercial ammo.
Taking the fired cases, and using a block of wood with a hole in it, I'd de-prime with an icepick, re-prime using a dowel and the wood block.
A dipper or so of FFFg black to about the mid-way point. Then a .457/.458 RB secured in place with a drop or two of Elmers.

I was way proud of being able to shoot my Trapdoor with ammo I could say I made. Match accuracy was not the goal fortunately.

Still have it, and it holds much sentimental value. The bore was in poor shape when I got it, but that sure didn't curb my pride of having it.

They are neat old rifles and I know for many years held no real value.