Why Is It Taught Not To Use Reloads For Self Defense?

[s1mp13m4n]

Hello everyone. I am enjoying learning about reloading. I finished reading the Lee Loader manual 2nd edition. I did not focus on riffle and shotshell. I read everything else. I would be thinking of reloading 38/357 for me and 380 for wifey. I have noticed that it is common practice to read in a forum, online, or just hear that you should not carry your own reloads for self defense. No one explain why, so why is that? If you are carefull, methodical, and systematic when you reload, would not your reloads go bang all the time? Are we not using or have access to similar piwders, primers, and boolets that the mainstream companies use? Like Paul Harrell says on his Youtube chanel, is not “hyper” ammunition simply hype to sell product? So, what is the deal here? Thanks for the help.

YouTube

 

[tlawler]

Conventional Wisdom is that if you loaded them yourself, the prosecution will paint you as a “gun nut” who “purposefully loaded up some kind of super deadly killer bullet” and went hunting for some miscreant who was on his way home from one of his three jobs or night classes at the local community college.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Massad Ayoob recommended finding out what your local PD uses and using the civilian legal version of that.

 

[biku324]

I've never actually seen any appellate decisions that support conventional wisdom; that doesn't mean there are none, there are just none commonly known or cited.

 

[mikld]

Old wive's tale about being prosecuted for making "extra lethal" ammo, with the intent to kill. I have been looking in on reloading forums since 2007 and have seen this subject many, many times, but, I have never seen, heard, read about any prosecution, lawsuit what so ever of a shooting where the good guy used handloads...

Mr. Ayoob is often quoted, but the situation he was reporting on was to determine if a person committed suicide or was murdered.

 

[mikld]

Conventional Wisdom is that if you loaded them yourself, the prosecution will paint you as a “gun nut” who “purposefully loaded up some kind of super deadly killer bullet” and went hunting for some miscreant who was on his way home from one of his three jobs or night classes at the local community college.

I question the "convential wisdom". It is normally repeated by those who read the "no handloads for SD" internet wisdom on a forum some where. Never any factual reports...

 

[Boriqua]

I think the court concerns are hooey!

Having said that .. I reload at least twice a month and have loaded thousands of rounds but DO NOT reload my self defense ammunition.

No I am not worried about any court hearsay but I feel that if my life depends on a split second and for everything to work properly I would rather depend on a company with the latest state of the art equipment and MILLIONS of rounds of verifiable experience.

Having said that .. I know plenty of guys who feel that because of the "big company" mass production they can get better, more reliable results on their bench at home rolling a few at a time. I dont know that either answer is wrong. You have to know your skill level.

Reloading isnt difficult on the surface but in that "OH ****" moment I personally would rather not have brass I used 10 times with a primer I rammed in somewhat straight on my lee single stage and crimped until it feels right. I would rather have a company that does it as part of their business.

I also notice that on my Remington and federal ammo at least the primers are sealed and again you can do this yourself but .. Yea .. I choose just to make my wife and I paper punchers and leave my potentially life saving cartridges to someone with better stuff and more experience.. YMMV

 

[Rosco Shooter]

In one of his books on the 1911, Patrick Sweeney stated, "Don't give your opponent another stick." Tlawler paints an accurate picture. Also, in my experience, legal proceedings are not searches for truth. Rather, they are all about prevailing. You don't want to give the D.A. any more to work with, especially in "progressive" communities.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Conventional Wisdom is that if you loaded them yourself, the prosecution will paint you as a “gun nut” who “purposefully loaded up some kind of super deadly killer bullet” and went hunting for some miscreant who was on his way home from one of his three jobs or night classes at the local community college.

That is the "conventional rumor", actually. There is a long held belief in the shooting community, which the community learned from TV or the Internet, that using your own handloads for self defense will get you into trouble with the prosecution. The first fallacy there is the assumption that there will be any prosecution. You don't get arrested, indicted, and prosecuted for a justifiable use of your weapon, regardless of the ammunition and regardless of the weapon. Or, to put it more succinctly, a righteous shooting is a righteous shooting. Period.

The only issue you MIGHT face after a justifiable shooting is civil litigation. In that sense you could be up against a prosecution that wants to use your self defense ammunition against you. However, I have been in the shooting community a long time, and I have been a lawyer a long time, too, and I have never actually heard of such a case. Are there any? There MUST be! Everyone sues for everything. But it is so far removed from any normal situation that the "conventional rumor" is simply insufficient to use when choosing your weapon or your ammunition.

This is why I advocate for factory ammunition for self defense weapons and the poster said it so eloquently I shall not add to it or detract from it:

No I am not worried about any court hearsay but I feel that if my life depends on a split second and for everything to work properly I would rather depend on a company with the latest state of the art equipment and MILLIONS of rounds of verifiable experience.

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[littleriver1]

If you have the right to defend yourself and have the correct ID and permit and you are following the laws of the state where you are defending yourself then you should be good to go with any means you can find at the moment. If you are packing some reloads then the bad guy should have taken that into account. To my knowledge there is no law that says you cannot use reloads in a CCW. If, however a round fails to load or fire, that would be a problem. If you are using a wheel gun the fail to load problem goes away, but the fail to fire goes to the next round. If, however the first-round sticks in the barrel, Your screwed! I think if anyone wants to use reloads they should. You have better odds at winning the Power Ball lottery then ever needing to use your CCW. Well, I could be wrong about those odds, but they are really high. Old wives’ tale indeed!

 

[Sevens]

In one of his books on the 1911, Patrick Sweeney stated, "Don't give your opponent another stick." Tlawler paints an accurate picture. Also, in my experience, legal proceedings are not searches for truth. Rather, they are all about prevailing. You don't want to give the D.A. any more to work with, especially in "progressive" communities.

I really like the way you've put this. This discussion, which usually tends to get really snarky and nasty in short order always seems to upset the folks who claim that there is no proof that using handloads for defense is a bad idea.

I've never felt like I need to sway anyone's choices nor "prove" anything. I've loaded in excess of 100,000 rounds in three decades at the load bench and I'm wholly addicted to the hobby of handloading and outside of rimfire, it's 100% of what I shoot. Except for the testing of my carry/defense ammo.

It's what works for me. It doesn't have to work for anyone other than me. And I've actually loaded up a good supply of "extreme emergency" ammo that could/would be used for ANY manner of emergency, and those are handloads.

But I'll continue to carry factory defense ammo and hope that I never use even a single round of it outside of the gun range.

 

[Sevens]

You have better odds at winning the Power Ball lottery then ever needing to use your CCW. Well, I could be wrong about those odds, but they are really high. Old wives’ tale indeed!

Regarding the PowerBall, yep. You are absolutely wrong.

The odds for that are so extreme that real discussions that actually break it down and make comparisons border on the completely ludicrous. The dream of winning it is enjoyable, but the actual numbers are preposterous.

Whoops, thread drift. But if you own guns (or even if you don't), you've got a far better chance of accidentally or purposely shooting yourself than winning the PowerBall or MegaMillions.

 

[fredj338]

I just can not think of a good reason to load your own? Most of the better bullets are not available to the handloader. I would not worry about criminal prosecution but civil is another matter. You probably do put yourself at greater risk of civil suite if using handloads. You have a high chance of being sued in civil for any shooting, so giving the prosecution more seems foolish.
The only place I could justify it in my mind is downloading for my woods gun. I only have to swap ammo out when back in town. Hard to say I was doing anything evil downloading my 4" 44mag.

 

[Boriqua]

But I'll continue to carry factory defense ammo and hope that I never use even a single round of it outside of the gun range.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[tlawler]

I question the "convential wisdom". It is normally repeated by those who read the "no handloads for SD" internet wisdom on a forum some where. Never any factual reports...

Actually it was Massad Ayoob’s “In The Gravest Extreme” My copy doesn’t have any WWW printed on it, so that was before the internet.

 

[S&W629]

I want to add this.....I have had factory ammo....fail to fire(duds)...….but I have never had one of my reloads...fail to function....so it goes without saying....I have no issues with using my reloads for self defense...

after reloading for 40 years.....I have faith in the quality of my ammo....

 

[armenius]

Interesting conversation.It is amazing that people wouldn’t take handloads to a gunfight due to fear of lawyers but “ in bear country carry nothing less than a full loaded 44Magnum with a hard cast lead Keith Bullet”. A fail to fire could get you eaten alive much worse than facing a bunch of petty fogging lawyers!

 

[OKFC05]

Let's focus on the question actually asked: Why do we instructors TEACH to use factory loads?
Well, every organization I have taught for, from the NRA to several states, including Oklahoma , REQUIRES THAT ONLY FACTORY AMMO BE USED IN THEIR CLASSES. When I am asked about carrying other than factory for defense. I avoid the inevitable wasted half hour of unsubstantiated opinions by "This course requires factory commercial ammo, and does not cover other choices. And if you expect me to endorse your private brand, I can't, and won't."

Think about it...what else could you expect from any sanctioning organization? Even though we shoot lots of reloads in USPSA, the participants are 100% liable for them, with no alibis or reshoots if they fail to make PF or otherwise don't meet standards. Use the approved factory loads in USPSA, and PF is assumed.

 

[cadmike]

Good quality self defense bullets are available to reloaders such as the Gold dot hollow point and a company called rim rock makes an excellent 158 grain LSWCHP with gas check.

I for one have no qualms about carrying my reloads. I trust them, 100%.

 

[bigggbbruce]

I carry reloaded ammo that is loaded to manufacturers recommended data. That and the fact I reload any CF I shoot.

If and that's a big if I end up shooting some one with that or any load I have produced. They are welcome to pull down my ammo and see for themselves...

Back away from the ledge..