.44 Special +P Loads vs .44 Remington Magnum for Self Defense

[HardlyAble2]

So i guess Winchester doesn't make these anymore?

 

[YkcorCal]

So i guess Winchester doesn't make these anymore?
View attachment 497767

It seems they still are around and are a viable option. I wish there was more data on such loads as the Winchester .44 Magnum 210gr Silver tip as it was designed as a self-defense round, as to my understanding. Rated at 1250 FPS out of an unspecified barrel length. It would be interesting to see what it actually does out of a 2.5" barrel and in Gel Tests!

 

[MountainGunner]

This thread, although not fresh, is a very interesting one for those of us who prefer to carry a 44 mag for protection against 2-legged predators. One round that is still being manufactured in 2022 but wasn't mentioned in this thread is the Barnes 44 mag 225 gr XPB. Am wondering if anyone here has tested this round in a revolver and, if so, would you care to share your thoughts on it? Am also curious if it's true that the recoil of this round is somewhere between 44 mag and 44 Special?

 

[Laketime]

Yrs ago when in the protection service ,I use to load my four inch 29 with Remington reduced loads and their 180 gr JHP in speed loaders.

 

[junglefighter]

I still have some Speer Gold Dot 44 Mag. for short bbl. revolvers. This is supposed to be a hot spl. load(?). I prefer a 44 Spl./44 Mag. for self defense. Sig ammo, which I have is also good(?) for self defense from those who have fired it at targets-not people. This is still a good thread to read and learn.

 

[54ball]

Let's see .44 Special?

MMMMMnnnn.

A flat nosed bullet or SWC 200-245 grn 700-1000 FPS....
If that won't do the job what will, a German 88?
It seemed to work pretty good on Stagger Lee.

 

[eb07]

Compare Lucky Gunner Labs results between the best .45 ACP loads that expand and the best .357 Magnums that expand. Plus their penetration results.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

Fake gel tests are unreliable. I don't know why people keep using that stuff.

 

[Doug M.]

Because they are not trying to precisely match the FBI data, but still need something that is consistent and reliable, with less difficulty of use. True ballistic gelatin has very demanding standards and is hard to handle.

 

[eb07]

Because they are not trying to precisely match the FBI data, but still need something that is consistent and reliable, with less difficulty of use. True ballistic gelatin has very demanding standards and is hard to handle.

But it is the only medium that is consistent and reliable. Go figure.



But if you like inconsistency and skewed data then go for it.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I do not have access to a proper laboratory, but I think a Keith 250 at 950 fps will be both a good self-defense load, at the same time mild and easy on you and the Model 29. A good choice for defense if you are committed to the big bore revolver.

 

[zeke]

Yrs ago when in the protection service ,I use to load my four inch 29 with Remington reduced loads and their 180 gr JHP in speed loaders.

My favorite 44 mag load is with Rem 180 gn sjhp at 1250 fps from 4 in revolver. Back when Rem bullets were noticeably less expensive expensive than others, loaded these in 1000 rd batches. Extremely accurate in all the 44 mags tried in, but needed to modify the sights in some of em. The load gets about 1500 fps from 16 in lever, and very mild to shoot.

As Rem bullets got harder to find, also use the Hdy 180 xtp.

 

[BB57]

I have not read the last 50 posts so if it's repetitious just ignore it.

When Elmer Keith got involved in the development of the .41 Magnum he advocated for a 200 gr bullet at 900 fps as the law enforcement load, with a 2 gr bullet at 1300 fps for the mag um hunting load.

There were two reasons for that:

1) The 200 gr bullet at 900 fps was almost identical to the ballistic performance of the.44 Special which was a solid law enforcement round, especially in later loadings. Before it the .44 Russian (247 gr at 750 fps), the .44-40 (200 gr at 870 fps) and .38-40 (180 gr at 1000 fps) had all been getting the job done just fine since 1870-1873; and

2) The .44 Special was about all the average police officer could manage anyway in terms of recoil.

——-

If you look at the real world shoot data, once you get up to the .357 Magnum, none of the larger handgun rounds perform any better - .357 Mag, .41 Mag, .44 Special or .44 Mag, they all perform equally well.

The take away there needs to be that the .44 Magnum won't perform any better in a concealed carry self defense role when it comes to terminal ballistics, follow up shots will however be slower, and for many folks the increased recoil of .44 Mag versus .44 Special in a concealed carry friendly revolver will equate to a lot less practical and less proficiency.

 

[elpac3]

Very interesting ideas being bantered around here - age old debate continues.

Popcorn everywhere - - -

The basic issues goes back to first rounds on target will be the guy who wins the fight and goes home regardless of the paper ballistics or bullet style or bullet weight -- - -

The best bullet is the one you can shoot the best and put on target. Putting a hole in the target is the important point here. People are a relatively small, soft target and center mass hits will disable a person quickly and end the fight.

Have seen many a fatal wound with the .22 LR, granted, I would choose a little larger caliber but - first hits goa LONG way to ending the fight which goes back to control ability with the weapon and the round especially for the follow-up shot

 

[PALADIN85020]

Back in my callow youth, I bought my first .44 magnum - an old model Ruger Super Blackhawk in the coveted white box. Later sold the gun when I found out my wife had tossed the white box out of the under-the-stairs closet I had it stored in (as many of you know, the white box was rarer than the gun and sold for much more). But I digress.

My first experience with the monster Ruger taught me that it would not do for self-defense purposes. The recoil of the gun pointed the barrel at the sky or ceiling, making repeat shots awkward and time-consuming.

In those days you could write to the NRA and ask them questions on gun-related subjects. I asked them what would be a good handload for self-defense work in this gun (I had a Lee loader at the time).

The answer was "Load up your cartridge case with 10 grains of Unique and a 240-grain semi-wadcutter." This load was good for at least 1000 fps with very pleasant and manageable recoil.

I loaded up quite a few rounds with this combination and found it entirely suitable for both impressive power and quick recoil recovery.

John

 

[THE PILGRIM]

When I reloaded I had a 240 Gr Elmer 44 Mould.
I would load them for 44 Mag at about 1000 FPS.
Excellent shooter in my 6 inch Revolvers.

 

[Borderboss]

I'm sure I'll get flamed on this, but need to say it anyway.

Elmer Keith was very instrumental is handgun and bullet development, but he died in 1984 and all of his work on those subjects occurred prior to 1970. While his thoughts on what was an effective bullet design are interesting, going with his opinions solely ignores the 60+ years of developments that occurred since he last looked at the situation.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Jeff Cooper said a small bore JHP may not expand but a .45ACP will never shrink.

 

[Claymore33]

I used to carry the Remington 44 Magnum midrange load in my model 29 for a duty gun in Detroit. If I remember properly, it chrono graphed at just around 900 fps with a conical 240gr bullet. It offered a faster second shot but in my opinion would have been a better bullet design had it been made with a sharp shoulder.
The second shot recoil/recovery issue is to be considered, especially in a large caliber loading.

I agree. I tried 850 fps 240gr .44 SPL and it was too weak. I bumped up the HP-38 to get 900fps and found that to be a good round for carry on the ranch in TEXAS. In Montana ,I would go back to full house MAGNUMS.

 

[BB57]

Back in my callow youth, I bought my first .44 magnum - an old model Ruger Super Blackhawk in the coveted white box. Later sold the gun when I found out my wife had tossed the white box out of the under-the-stairs closet I had it stored in (as many of you know, the white box was rarer than the gun and sold for much more). But I digress.

My first experience with the monster Ruger taught me that it would not do for self-defense purposes. The recoil of the gun pointed the barrel at the sky or ceiling, making repeat shots awkward and time-consuming.

In those days you could write to the NRA and ask them questions on gun-related subjects. I asked them what would be a good handload for self-defense work in this gun (I had a Lee loader at the time).

The answer was "Load up your cartridge case with 10 grains of Unique and a 240-grain semi-wadcutter." This load was good for at least 1000 fps with very pleasant and manageable recoil.

I loaded up quite a few rounds with this combination and found it entirely suitable for both impressive power and quick recoil recovery.

John

Back in the day when a I lived in Boulder canyon a friend and I would sit on his back deck and shoot at rocks across the creek on the canyon wall. The object being to dislodge rocks and drop them into the creek. He had a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag and I had a 7 1/2" Blackhawk in .45 Colt, loaded with "Ruger only" loads with a 240 gr bullet at about 1350 fps. That was probably around 50 fps slower than his full power .44 Mag hand loads and probably 200 fps faster than his CCI store bought loads (CCI was known for mid range .44 Mag loads back in the day, and their greater shootability made them popular to shoot.)

We both discovered the mid range CCI loads were just as effective on rocks, and were a whole lot more pleasant to shoot. Just because you can do something doesn't always mean it's worth doing.

Since then the majority of my .45 Colt loads for my Blackhawks have been down in the 800-900 fps range with a 240-250 gr bullet. A little warmer than a .44 special in some cases, but not much.

 

[Bald1]

Superman, I don't know how scientific that video was BUT it was impressive. The accuracy of both loads was fantastic. I've been carrying the .38 158gr Outdoorsman load for a while in my K frame woods guns. I can attest to their accuracy. That 44 load would seem to be all that's needed instead of a magnum.