.44 Special +P Loads vs .44 Remington Magnum for Self Defense

[YkcorCal]

.44 Special +P Loads vs .44 Remington Magnum for Self Defense

As someone who has a lot of experience shooting full bore .44 Magnum loads (for animal protection and hunting) but is interested in the self-defense aspects of carrying such a firearm as the S&W Performance Center 629 2.6" as a concealed carry arm the .44 Special +P loads or .44 Magnum loads specifically designed and loaded for self-defense against humans and not hunting animals is most interesting.

Loads such as Underwood's 200gr. coated wadcutter in a .44 Special +P loading at 1000FPS are very interesting indeed and I wish there was more data on it and gel tests. The same with Underwood's .44 Special +P loading 200 Grain Speer Gold Dot bullet at I believe 975FPS! I for one would really like to see extensive testing out of short barrels as to wound channels, and expansion for the hollow point but alas I can find no such tests or results online! Such a comparison between a non-expanding full wadcutter and one of the better reliable expanding HPs would be very enlightening for those that defensive carry especially out of short barrel .44 Magnum revolvers that can carry either .44 Special +P or .44 Magnum loads!

There is a definite need for the development of ammo specifically made for defensive carry in the above mentioned type of .44 Magnum revolvers as well as said revolvers having their cylinders cut for use with full moon clips and the chambers chamfered for for fast reloading in defensive situations as their .357 Magnum cousins are like the S&W Performance Center 627 8 shot 2.6" .357 Mag! Why not do the same for the S&W Performance Center 629 2.6" in .44 Mag???

 

[moosedog]

I used to carry the Remington 44 Magnum midrange load in my model 29 for a duty gun in Detroit. If I remember properly, it chrono graphed at just around 900 fps with a conical 240gr bullet. It offered a faster second shot but in my opinion would have been a better bullet design had it been made with a sharp shoulder.
The second shot recoil/recovery issue is to be considered, especially in a large caliber loading.

 

[IrishFritz]

I agree that there needs to be some thought put into 44 magnum revolvers for concealed carry and self defense. My first thought is that we value 44 mag because of the energy of the cartridge, so does it make sense to "detune" the load for combat? Won't it be better to choose a 357 in a strong frame revolver with a +P load and a good bullet such as a Speer Gold Dot 125?
My second thought is that a 29 is a big frame and cylinder revolver and its a bit heavy so its hard to comfortably conceal and carry versus a say a 686.
My third thought is to question the utility of short barrels given the velocity loss over a 4" barrel length.
My fourth thought is that the ability to handload is a great asset when building a self defense load.
Having said all of that, My carry gun is a 629 4" with 44 magnum 240 grain Keith semi-wadcutters cast relatively soft with a BHN of 10 and backed with 9.5 grains of Unique for just under 1100FPS.
I think this is a great topic and worthy of more discussion.

 

[SuperMan]

...there used to be a load...the Speer .44 Magnum 200 grain Gold Dot HP...was rated at 1080 from a 4" barrel. It used the 200 grain bullet that is used in their slow-poke .44 Special load that doesn't expand reliably at all at 860 from 6.5" barrel... Apparently not enough .44 Magnum carriers knew about the round or bought it as Speer dropped it a few years ago.

Loading data for that bullet is in the Speer #14 Reloading Manual. When I had a 629 Mountain Gun I used 10.0 grains of W-231 to duplicate the load. I have a bunch of bullets left and am thinking about getting another 629 MG just to use them up with. Very controllable round and expands every time.

Just saw this yesterday on YouTube and was impressed with the performance of both the .38 and .44 rounds...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJYsc6PdEM&t=9s[/ame]

Heavy .44 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

The .38 Special is basically a duplicate of the .38-44 loading but BB says it is safe in all MODERN .38 Special revolvers...even Js. MUCH better round than the vaulted FBI load...MUCH...

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

 

[Borderboss]

As SM mentioned, Speer had a Gold Dot Short Barrel 44 Mag round, but discontinued it a couple of years ago. I was able to buy 10 boxes of it from Bud's when I bought my Model 69 2.75" for carrying. It recoils about the same as their Gold Dot 44 Special round, but it's louder. Perhaps Speer would respond to a letter writing campaign to bring them back?

 

[SuperMan]

Would be interesting to see what the actual velocity is from your 2.75" barrel of both the Magnum and Special loadings...

A friend had one of the PC 629 2.75" ported carry guns. He sent me pics of the .44 Special loading after hitting water...they didn't expand at all whereas the Magnum bullets expanded every time... He didn't have a chrono to test test them however.

 

[zeke]

Speer's 200 gn gdhp has been very accurate in every 44 sp or 44 mag tried. In 44 special, Speer's aluminum cased 200 gdhp is noticably faster than their high end nickel cased load, getting close to 900 fps from 3 in 696. As noted Speer's old 44 mag load with the 200 gdhp gets about 1070 fps from 4 in barrel.

For the 44 mag, very easy to make accurate and controllable vermin rounds. Faster powders work well with the 200 gdhp. Have a preference for 180 jhp @ 1250 from 4 in barrel, also easy to load for.

 

[Univibe]

If I had to rely on my 629 for personal defense, I'd use my 240 grain hardcast SWC at about 1000 fps. Mild to shoot but will handle any thug. About 10 grains of a medium fast powder (AA#5, Unique) will get you there. Anything hotter or heavier is just excess.

 

[badge]

I think you'd be more than well protected from two and some four legged predators with the .44 Specials from Speer or Underwoods LWC. Follow up shots with magnums used to be fun and fast for me but age takes it's toll as shooting is a perishable skill as I was once told.

 

[diyj98]

Several years ago a friend of mine who carried a 629 as his police sidearm (he was often laughed at my his coworkers) loaded up some hot 44 special loads. We found little to no expansion when shooting some of them into water. I guess the bullets being designed for 44 magnum velocity, weren't getting enough out of the hot 44 special loads to open up effectively. I use the 44 special Gold Dots in my 69 as my nightstand gun, but I have no doubt they're designed for lower velocity.

 

[YkcorCal]

I think you'd be more than well protected from two and some four legged predators with the .44 Specials from Speer or Underwoods LWC. Follow up shots with magnums used to be fun and fast for me but age takes it's toll as shooting is a perishable skill as I was once told.

Ah, yes, as the Underwood .44 Special loaded 200gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point Self Defense Ammo uses the Speer Gold Dot loaded hotter than Speer did to 975fps though the test barrel length is not stated.

 

[YkcorCal]

There is no such thing as a magic bullet of any caliber or any loading though we can always strive to achieve the most reliable expanding, yet good penetrating and least liable to clog hollow points so they remain inside the bad guy to do their intended duty.

I have never owned or used a .357 Magnum though I have had friends that have. My major concerns with the .357 are the high muzzle blast to get it up to speed to really do its business especially out of a S&W Performance Center 627 2.6" which is what I would want for my purposes. The longer barreled .357 Mag. has long ago established its stopping power reputation on the streets so there is no question about that. I am just not sure a short barreled .357 Magnum is right for ME as that muzzle blast really bothers me when I have been around it out of snubbies. That is why for me personally I gravitate toward rounds like the Underwood .44 Special +P out of a .44 Magnum short barrel gun. Since I personally just have more experience shooting a .44 magnum even with full power loads it is only natural for me to consider the caliber for social work with rounds suitable to the work.

If someone shoots and handles a .357 Magnum snub nose with accuracy and confidence then that is a great choice for them just not for me personally.

I wish Lucky Gunner Labs would do their testing especially on the .44 Special +P self Defense Loadings out of 2.5" bbl. and 4" revolvers as I believe there is enough interest in the results compared.

 

[steelslaver]

A 44 or 45 that does not expand is as big as a 38 or 357 that does.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

...there used to be a load...the Speer .44 Magnum 200 grain Gold Dot HP...was rated at 1080 from a 4" barrel. It used the 200 grain bullet that is used in their slow-poke .44 Special load that doesn't expand reliably at all at 860 from 6.5" barrel... Apparently not enough .44 Magnum carriers knew about the round or bought it as Speer dropped it a few years ago.

Loading data for that bullet is in the Speer #14 Reloading Manual. When I had a 629 Mountain Gun I used 10.0 grains of W-231 to duplicate the load. I have a bunch of bullets left and am thinking about getting another 629 MG just to use them up with. Very controllable round and expands every time.

Just saw this yesterday on YouTube and was impressed with the performance of both the .38 and .44 rounds...

Old School Manstoppers! .38 Special VS .44 Special Lead Hollow Points! - YouTube

Heavy .44 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

The .38 Special is basically a duplicate of the .38-44 loading but BB says it is safe in all MODERN .38 Special revolvers...even Js. MUCH better round than the vaulted FBI load...MUCH...

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

200 gr at 860 fps in .429 caliber. why do you need expansion???

 

[Rammer Jammer]

What the OP wants is like others have written. Search for the discontinued rare as hens teeth Speer 44 Short bbl loads, buy some Underwood or the aluminum cased Blazer 44s.

 

[YkcorCal]

A 44 or 45 that does not expand is as big as a 38 or 357 that does.

Compare Lucky Gunner Labs results between the best .45 ACP loads that expand and the best .357 Magnums that expand. Plus their penetration results.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

 

[wuluf]

Black Hills Honey Badger
I have a 3" .44 Special revolver from a company that rhymes with booger. Started using this ammo after reading articles and testing it. Light weight bullets moving fast and hitting hard. No expansion to worry about, creates a large wound channel. Felt recoil is less than the 240 LSWC that I load for plinking. Accurate too..

.44 Special HoneyBadger™ | Black Hills Ammunition

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 

[YkcorCal]

What the OP wants is like others have written. Search for the discontinued rare as hens teeth Speer 44 Short bbl loads, buy some Underwood or the aluminum cased Blazer 44s.

I know the Speer Gold Dot loads are discontinued so I went directly to the Underwood .44 Special 200gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point Self Defense Ammo using the Speer Gold Dots at an even higher velocity than Speers original loading.

Anyone considering using a .44 Special or .44 Magnum short barrel handgun should consider that load for defensive carry in my opinion.

 

[YkcorCal]

Underwood .44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter

200 gr at 860 fps in .429 caliber. why do you need expansion???

Try the Underwood .44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast load for self defense rated at 1000 FPS (barrel test length not stated). No expansion considerations just crushing and sharp shoulder tearing. I have been doing my homework.

Of course you can go to the opposite end of the spectrum and shoot the .44 Rem Mag 135gr Glaser Silver load rated at Velocity: 1600fps, Test Barrel Length: 4.0 Inches. It is one of the only Glaser rounds still in production as I understand.

There is one thing for sure; if you carry a .44 Magnum you can carry ammo to match most any situation you are likely to face from two legged animals to big four legged ones with teeth and long claws.

 

[vipermd]

I like Speer 200 44 special and the old 20 + years winchester silvertip supposedly worked well, I carry one or the other in the 44 specials. In the 44 mag derringer I carry the discontinued 44 mag SB speer. Will have to start looking for something new out of the derringer. As you said no magic bullets, but I feel comfortable with most loads that start at .40 or above. Be Safe,