^^^^BTDT! 
Loads for 38 Special in 357 brass
- Thread starter PapaWheelie
- Start date
Arub01
Member
If you are willing to try Alliant Green Dot I have some load data, including chronyed info, that I can send you. Will need an actual email address for attachment.
OP
PapaWheelie
Member
A "couple of grains"????
I hope you mean a couple tenths of a grain.
As was stated, just increase the .38 load by about 10% and you will have the very near equivalent load in a .357 case.
Don't use hollow base wad cutters. Ever. I suggest using 158 grain semi-wadcutter bullets.
I caught that too, figured just a typo. I have been using 158 grain hi-tek coated SWC's and RNFP's -so far cleanup has been a breeze even when using Unique. After looking at those pictures I won't fool with hollow base anything. I agree with the comment that more harm is done to a firearm, handgun or long gun, by aggressive cleaning than most anything else.
Consensus seems to be to bump the 38 load by a couple 10ths to 10% or so and go from there. Seems logical and I'll start there. Thanks for all the responses, awesome forum.
I have loaded a lot of 357 Magnum brass to 38 Special ballistics. 38 Special load data is where you start, but due to the larger case capacity of the magnum brass, you will need to increase the load by 0.2 to 0.5 grains, depending upon the powder.
Confused
Very interesting thread, but I have found some contradicting data from Hodgdon's online data manual. Most folks here seem to agree that a slight bump in powder weight using 357 brass is beneficial, however Hodgdon appears to claim the opposite! I used their calculator and selected 148gr HBWC & HP-38 for both calibers, their results:
38 SPECIAL
3.5-4.0 grains, 869-956 fps
357 MAGNUM
3.0-3.4 grains, 845-908 fps
Note the MAX load for 357 is BELOW the 38 STARTING load ??????????
Very confusing to say the least! I think I've lost my faith in Hodgdon's calculator. Any thoughts?
Very interesting thread, but I have found some contradicting data from Hodgdon's online data manual. Most folks here seem to agree that a slight bump in powder weight using 357 brass is beneficial, however Hodgdon appears to claim the opposite! I used their calculator and selected 148gr HBWC & HP-38 for both calibers, their results:
38 SPECIAL
3.5-4.0 grains, 869-956 fps
357 MAGNUM
3.0-3.4 grains, 845-908 fps
Note the MAX load for 357 is BELOW the 38 STARTING load ??????????
Very confusing to say the least! I think I've lost my faith in Hodgdon's calculator. Any thoughts?
The Norseman
Member
357Rem Mag 38Spl Velocities
Hello all S&W Reloading Enthusiasts.
My current go to reload for plinking with the
357Rem Mag reload:
38/357 .358dia. 148gr Lead DECW Double End
Wad Cutter.
3.0grs Alliant Red Dot, CCI SP #500 primer.
Brass is 357 Winchester, or R-P.
Crimp is what I call medium roll crimp.
FPS approximately 750?
Bullets are tumble lubed with Ben's Liquid Lube
for Lead Free barrel performance.
Primers no where near flat.
The thing about Red Dot is it has enough bulk,
that it is easy to visually see a double charge.
I'm a single stage, small batch reloader anyway.
Other powders I've used and like are; Bullseye,
Unique, American Select.
Be Safe, the Best to you and your Endeavors.
Hello all S&W Reloading Enthusiasts.
My current go to reload for plinking with the
357Rem Mag reload:
38/357 .358dia. 148gr Lead DECW Double End
Wad Cutter.
3.0grs Alliant Red Dot, CCI SP #500 primer.
Brass is 357 Winchester, or R-P.
Crimp is what I call medium roll crimp.
FPS approximately 750?
Bullets are tumble lubed with Ben's Liquid Lube
for Lead Free barrel performance.
Primers no where near flat.
The thing about Red Dot is it has enough bulk,
that it is easy to visually see a double charge.
I'm a single stage, small batch reloader anyway.
Other powders I've used and like are; Bullseye,
Unique, American Select.
Be Safe, the Best to you and your Endeavors.
Attachments
Perhaps this topic could become a stickie? I have been using 38 Special data in 357 Magnum brass since about a year after I got my 357 Magnum in '87. I use data straight out of my manuals for loading 38 data in 357 brass, and no "formula". Just remember the listed data for 38 Special, velocities/pressure, in 357 brass will be higher than what is actually achieved. But on that same note; I have never had a bullet stuckm in my 4" 357's barrel, even wadcutters with 3.0 gr of Bullseye...
Simple: The limit is caused by the HBWC; it has nothing to do with the powder pressure. So it is NOT a usual MAX load due to pressure concerns. In my experience , even a MINIMUM load of Green Dot can blow the skirts off HBWC!!
Added: And the more air space you have under a HBWC, the more likely it will blow the bullet into two pieces, maybe even sticking the skirt. It has to do with forming a pressure wave, like leaving an air space above a black powder ball, which can bulge the barrel. Internal ballistics do not lend themselves to intuition, or "common sense" based on what we think we know, but most don't. Using a short cartridge and seating the HBWC right down on the powder is safer.
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I'm not speaking about the low limit and understand the fragility of the HBWC. In both examples I cited the bullet was a HBWC. My point was that Hodgdon suggests a heavier charge of the SAME powder with the SAME bullet in 38SPL cases vs 357MAG cases! Go figure???????
muddocktor
Member
Besides what OKFC05 posted above, I can give you a most probable mechanical issue limiting the 357 Mag data with that bullet. What I think you are seeing with this data is due to the test setup they are using for both calibers. They are most probably using a closed chamber test barrel for testing both 38 Special and 357 Mag and most probably using the same test barrel to measure both. Since 38 Special cases are only physically different from 357 Magnum in length only, a 38 Special round shot out of a barrel that can chamber both cartridges would treat the 38 Special rounds as a closed chamber gun that has a very long leade or freebore and helps lower chamber pressures and possibly give a little more velocity, since the skirt will swell out to help seal the smooth bore section before the rifling.
OP
PapaWheelie
Member
I've been looking at different powders to try and am considering a ball powder like Hodgdon/Winchester 231 to use next. It's a little faster than Unique and readily available in my area. I've read that ball powders meters well so it's worth a try. This is from the Hodgdon site;
38 Special - 158 gr. cast LSWC - 7.7" barrel
3.1 - 3.7 grains 782 - 834 fps 11,900 - 14,600 CUP
357 Magnum -158 gr. cast LSWC - 10" barrel
3.4 - 5.0 grains 796 - 1,109 fps 12,600 - 23,900 CUP
In this case I think this pretty much bears out what those above have been saying. Bumping up the 38 starting load a couple of tenths seems to produce similar results. Using a 10" barrel on the 357 must skew things a bit but can't think it's huge.
Just clean your gun after shooting it, problem solved. I love the smell of Hoppes or Ballistol. My Old Model BlackHawk .357 loves cast 158gr .38 loads with Unique. Have a hard time switching to 357 brass when these shoot groups you can cover with a quarter ; at 25 yards. 
You can use EXACTLY....
You can use exactly the same loads in .357 cases as you use in your .38 loads. That smidge of extra length isn't enough in old revolver cases (which began with Black Powder loads) to make any difference in volume a problem at all. It's only purpose is to prevent loading a .357 into a .38 special gun.
You can use exactly the same loads in .357 cases as you use in your .38 loads. That smidge of extra length isn't enough in old revolver cases (which began with Black Powder loads) to make any difference in volume a problem at all. It's only purpose is to prevent loading a .357 into a .38 special gun.
boatbum101
Member
If you use a 38 special load in a 357 case ES & SD will be high & most of the time accuracy will suffer . Pressure will also be lower which will cause the above & it also affects powder burn . All powders have a pressure range that they burn efficiently . Above or below that your results will suffer . You can chose to use same powder & increase the charge in the larger case , chose a slower powder with appropriate charge or use the smaller case & seat your bullet out with an adjusted charge .
Using 357 brass, 4 grains of Bullseye behind a 158 gr lead SWC is accurate and easy shooting in my 4" 19-3.
If you have lots of 357 cases, use them. There's no real need for using 38 Special cases.
John
If you have lots of 357 cases, use them. There's no real need for using 38 Special cases.
John
Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Read somewhere it's like 10% but I generally just play around midrange til I find the accuracy I'm happy with. You are shooting SP level loads in a Magnum so high pressure isn't an issue. 4gr of Green Dot under a 158gr LSWC has been working for me.
I'll add my 0.02 here. I load all of my 357 cases down to around 38 spl velocity. I don't mind shooting 38 cases in my 357 but I have so many 357 cases I just use those. Alliant has some load data for what they call "cowboy" loads that appear to be about 38 spl velocity or maybe a tad hotter but they work really well in 357 cases using 158 SWC bullets which is what I use.
Here's the link.
Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide
I use Amarican Select but Unique would probably work just as well. I've never tried Unique so don't know. These are max loads. Start 10% below listed load and work up. AS is an exceptionally clean burning powder. I use it for 38 spl, 9x19, 357 mag lite and 45 ACP.
Good luck.
Here's the link.
Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide
I use Amarican Select but Unique would probably work just as well. I've never tried Unique so don't know. These are max loads. Start 10% below listed load and work up. AS is an exceptionally clean burning powder. I use it for 38 spl, 9x19, 357 mag lite and 45 ACP.
Good luck.
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OP
PapaWheelie
Member
I asked the question originally because I bought 1500 once fired 357 brass from Capital Cartridge and have a total of two 38 brass that got mixed in in error.
Bullseye seems to be a very popular powder here, I will have to try it. Thanks
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