Victory Model wartime changes

[Texas Star]

T-Star, Yes those production figures include the .38/200 caliber guns. Carl Hellstrom's letter to President Truman, (presenting Serial number V1 after WW2 as a momento of the "Allied Victory," etc.) commented that S&W had produced " two million" of these handguns for the war effort. Where he got that production figure, I don't know. probably a PR comment with a little poetic license involved! The actual presentation of V1 to Truman was handled by Congressman Cecil King, an old friend of Truman's from his days as a Senator. I've never been able to find any photos of that presentation in the White House archives, so it was apparently a private meeting between old friends Truman took the gun with him when he left the Washington and it was his bedside gun in later years at his home in Independence., Mo. and it now resides in the vault at the Truman Library. ( They let me play with it, but wouldn't let me shoot it! Bummer!) Ed.

Ed-

Thanks. I'm pleased that Truman kept a bedside gun!

But were you saying that Black Magic guns were made from 1940? That is in direct contrast to all else that I've seen. Even "brush polished" blued guns were made later. Isn't Black Magic that Parkerized lookalike finish?

 

[opoefc]

T-Star, I would tend to agree with you, as the date of Aug. 5, 1940, seems too early , however Hellstrom's notes say (Quote) " Black Magic - Started about Aug. 5, 1940" (End quote) . That info is listed on a page in the Notebook, labled "Misc. Information." Directly under the Black magic entry is a note: "Parkerizing - May 4, 1942 to May 9, 1942. (about 6,000 guns). Also, " First Sand Blast to shipping room -Mar. 3, 1942"
Whether the reference to Black Magic in 1940 is a typo in the notes, or maybe when R&D on the process started, your guess. Somewhere in my files I probably have a reference on when "Black Magic" was copyrighted, or the process patented. I'll post that when I find it, or maybe Roy can find it quicker that I can. Ed.

 

[Texas Star]

Ed-

Many thanks. Please keep us posted!

T-Star

 

[K.38]

Does anyone know where the United States Maritime Commission victorys came from? Were they a direct purchase or did they go through one of the Navy, Army or DS contracts?

The reason I'm asking is I have a US Maritime Commission victory (pre-victory) serial #994198 that shipped 25 May 42 to US Maritime Commission 1611. I'm assuming, maybe incorrectly that this revolver went to Victory ship number 1611. 1611 does come up as one of the victory ships and ended up as a Lend/Lease to Russia. There were two revolvers issued to each ship according to one source I found.

Also did the OSS victorys go through one of the military contracts? My OSS gun went straight to the OSS. Would they have been under an Army contract but shipped directly to OSS?

Since I'm already bending everyone ear did the victorys that went to NZ go through the British Purchase Commission or did they aquire them some other way? Assuming again but did NZ have about 8000 victorys?

BTW all 4 of my victorys are in the data base.

Thanks for all the good info.

 

[digi-shots]

Mike,

Sounds like you've got some interesting Victory models!

I don't know if I can add much but... I have seen a posting of a Victory that was shipped to the Hartford Ordnance Depot that had a NZ stamping on the backstrap.

Also, I'm curious about your OSS Victory... does it have any special markings?

Thanks!

 

[K.38]

Mike,

Sounds like you've got some interesting Victory models!

I don't know if I can add much but... I have seen a posting of a Victory that was shipped to the Hartford Ordnance Depot that had a NZ stamping on the backstrap.

Also, I'm curious about your OSS Victory... does it have any special markings?

Thanks!

I did get very lucky with the victorys.

The OSS has no gov markings only "Bavaria Municiple Police" stamped on it. This revolver got around for sure. It went from the OSS to Bavaria, to an American Rod and Gun club in Germany to a Capt to a Master Sgt to the family of the Master Sgt after he past away to a pawn shop in Montana to me in the middle of the mountains in Colorado.

The US Maritime victory has no gov marking either. It does have a definite color difference from any other victory I have seen.

I have a 38/200 made late in the war (3 April 45) that appears to have stayed in the US. No export markings but this one unlike the others is marked US Property G H D.

The NZ revolver looks like it went through a war or something as the finish is really rough on it but it does shoot well.

 

[hsguy]

K.38, I have a pre-Victory 997546 that also letters as being shipped to 1611 United States Maritime Commission, Hoboken N.J. on May, 25 1942. I wonder if 1611 might be a building or depot number?

 

[K.38]

K.38, I have a pre-Victory 997546 that also letters as being shipped to 1611 United States Maritime Commission, Hoboken N.J. on May, 25 1942. I wonder if 1611 might be a building or depot number?

It very well could be. I asked Roy if he knew what 1611 was and he said he had no idea. There was nothing in the records to indicate building, ship, depot ect.

Still pretty cool though to have a revolver that is linked to the liberty ships.

 

[tenntex32]

My red letter "PROPERY OF U.S. NAVY" Victory model is s/n 985033. I was able to locate pics and a factory letter (not mine) for pre-Victory s/n 985250 that shipped to the U.S. Navy. The factory letter for s/n 985250 states it was a parkerized finish.

I have assumed that my example is possibly from the same shipment as s/n 985250 and may be parkerized as well.

(Obviously different lighting conditions with regards to pics for my revolver versus the pics for s/n 985250 that I found online...……..but holding it in person shows my example to be the same finish.)

Dale

addendum: My apologies for accidentally resurrecting this necro-thread!!!!!!!!!!

 

[handejector]

New larger style of number used for butt numbers on V guns and position inverted so that top of numbers were on the righthand side side of gun.

Hellstrom, or whoever he had compiling the notes, is wrong there. The later, larger numbers have the tops of the numbers on the LEFT hand side of the gun.

 

[Absalom]

Hellstrom, or whoever he had compiling the notes, is wrong there. The later, larger numbers have the tops of the numbers on the LEFT hand side of the gun.

They may just have confused themselves by their own strange way of expressing this. The top of the numbers?

Reading the numbers, the later, larger numbers moved to the right of the lanyard swivel

 

[Puller]

Very interesting and informative thread.

 

[opoefc]

More Victory Model trivia: During WW2. the US Navy Bureau of Ordnance put out small parts catalogs to the Naval Commands, listing spare parts available. These small catalogs, usually about 6 pages, came out at periodic intervals depending on availability of parts for the Navy models. One of the parts listed is a "Grip Adapter" as "available for training only" No ordnance number is listed, or a drawing, so I don't know what type of adapter was issued. I queried Roy Jinks on this some years ago, however he said he had never seen grip adapters on any parts orders, however these order sometimes ran many pages and he had not read all of them. The parts were supplied to Springfield Armory for later issue as requested by the military. I would suspect that the adaptors would have been of the early type commercially available for S&W pre-WW2. So, should you find a Victory Model with such a grip adaptor, do not assume it was added later in the gun's life. You may have a very rare variation! Good luck. Ed.

 

[handejector]

They may just have confused themselves by their own strange way of expressing this. The top of the numbers?

Reading the numbers, the later, larger numbers moved to the right of the lanyard swivel

They are both to the right of the swivel if you point both those guns in the sane direction.
Or, they are both to left of the swivel if you point them the other way.

 

[Absalom]

They are both to the right of the swivel if you point both those guns in the sane direction.
Or, they are both to left of the swivel if you point them the other way.

Certainly. I just think that from the point of clarity, referencing where they are (relative to the swivel) when you can actually read them makes more sense for the kind of beginners who need this reference. Especially since one comes across quite a few close-up photos where it is not easily discernible which way the gun is pointed.