I have a 686 6" that I've had for several years and have never been able to get any decent groups. The best group at 25 yards has been with .38 Special 125gr. lead round nose reloads using 4.0 gr. of Universal. Most groups fall into the 4-6" range at 25 yards. I have a Vortex Venom 3 mil red dot installed. I have the same setup on my 617 and can shoot under 1" at 50 yards consistently with it. Any good suggestions?
686 won't shoot good groups
- Thread starter Teep
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
hogblue
Member
Might increase your charge weights. Hodgdon lists start weight at 4.3 min to 4.7 max with universal under a 125 gr lead round nose.
Just a thought
Also how's your bbl. has that low charge produced any leading. You getting any keyholes?
Just a thought
Also how's your bbl. has that low charge produced any leading. You getting any keyholes?
I get the same results using factory .38 Special and .357 Magnum loads as well as handloads in .357 Magnum both 125gr JHP and 158 JSP. I have found no load that will shoot in it. No leading or key holeing.
Last edited:
357 shooter
Member
I assume you already checked the base and Vortex sight are secure - had a reflex sight on a semi-auto loosen up and the shots really spread out. And you are used to firing a more powerful gun without any flinching. The groups you are shooting with the 617 are excellent!
I've not fired very many loads using lead bullets through my 686 but did have pretty good results with some 158 LSWC loads.
Using Hornady XTP bullets of any weight has given me very good to excellent results. As did Sierra and Winchester 158s.
I just saw you reposted so I am editing , since it does not shoot well with JHPs there might be an issue with the gun itself.
Last edited:
I've replaced the sight twice with the same results.
elpac3
Member
Ditto that. Was working on an IDPA revolver load using 145 grain RN coated bullets in my model 19. Tried several different powder charges, finally found one closer to top end that shrunk the group down to a one ragged hole at 20 yards. Try ladder testing from mid to top.
Another thought - what does the muzzle crown look like?
Crown is small but consistent.
Does it spit lead? You could check the timing (assure that it locks up before the hammer falls) and look for a worn hand or ratchet. When it is locked up can you rotate the cylinder back and forth a little bit?
Check that the cylinder is first timing correctly and then lining up correctly. Timing, very slowly cock the hammer, does cylinder lock up before trigger locks back. If not you need a fitted hand. Tocheck alignment you need a range rod. It is sized so that will just slip down the barrel and if cylinder is not lined up correctly it will hang up rather than enter chamber. Also check the thats of cylinder to see that they are not over or under sized.
Also take a hard look at the forcing cone, does it appear even? Using good light and a white card in frame opening take a hard look at barrel.
Have you tried firing a 5 shot group from each chamber. Possible that just one or 2 are out .
Also take a hard look at the forcing cone, does it appear even? Using good light and a white card in frame opening take a hard look at barrel.
Have you tried firing a 5 shot group from each chamber. Possible that just one or 2 are out .
Lock up is tight with no movement, no visible wear, only about 400 rounds through it. Barrel is clean and lead free.
Protocall_Design
Vendor
Sounds like the barrel. Check to see if the rifling looks good. Recut the forcing cone and crown with correct piloted tools. Probably the muzzle crown. When it starts shooting tight groups with +P 38 or 357 mag. you will know it's fixed.
The factory twist rate is too slow for light target loads. Heavier bullets and/or higher velocity will tighten up groups. All the PPC guns that shot bunny fart wadcutter loads well at 50 yards were 10 - 14 twist rate (custom barrel). S&W factory twist is 1 in 18-3/4.
The factory twist rate is too slow for light target loads. Heavier bullets and/or higher velocity will tighten up groups. All the PPC guns that shot bunny fart wadcutter loads well at 50 yards were 10 - 14 twist rate (custom barrel). S&W factory twist is 1 in 18-3/4.
4barrel
Member
My 681 groups better with warm 38 special loads. My mag load with lead is a 148 bnwc with 5 grains of Bullseye. My 38 special load is 3.7 of American Select with the same Boolit. 1 1/2'' 10 shot with iron sights is ok @25 yards bench.
Last edited:
Pig Hunter
Member
Slug your barrel and check the barrel torque hasn't put choke where the threads are in the frame. A bullet swaged down going through that area will bounce around going down the rest of the barrel.
Lead is the operative word here. Get a Lewis Lead Remover, brass brush in drill, etc and clean the barrel until you believe it cant get any cleaner and then do it again. I bet your problem straightens itself out.
I had a 6" Mod 686 that gave me the same problem. It wouldn't group with anything at 25 yards. Even the old standby HBWC with 2.7gr of Bullseye shot around 3". I was going to sell it and stumbled across a 7" Barrel here for sale. Bought it and had it swapped out by a Master Gunsmith. Now it shoots 1" groups at 25 yards with ease. BTW, After he removed the original barrel, the gunsmith could not find any reason at all why it wouldn't shoot well. He checked the crown, rifling, forcing cone and everything else he could think of but everything was in spec and he is very particular.
cowboy4evr
Member
Are the cylinder throats too small , less than .357 . Last yr I bought a model 19-5 , 4" barrel . It appeared that it was shot little . When I measured the cylinder throats using a pin gauge . A .357 pin would not fit , next I tried a .356 . Still wouldn't fit . Finally a .355 pin gauge just did fit . I can't even imagine how poor the accuracy could of been . I opened up the cylinder throats to .3575 . I slid a pin gauge down the barrel looking for tight spots , it went through easily . I have a great shooter , but I'm sure that wasn't always the case . Revolvers don't always leave the factory perfect . We need to understand that , be ready to remedy the problems . If you aren't able to check on those points I mentioned , find a good gunsmith and he will correct any issues he finds . Don't give up , 686's are great revolvers and can be worth the effort . I have a 686 and a 681 and they both shoot 38 special as well as full 357 magnum loads accurately . Regards Paul
Benchrest1
Member
I would try a hotter load. Some guns shoot better on the fast side rather than the slow side.
scooter123
Member
Is it a ECM or broached rifling barrel. If it's ECM it's not compatible with lead unplated bullets. I have a model 620 with an ECM barrel and it will shoot well under 1 inch at 50 yards with Federal 130 grain 38 spl. TMJ. However run a box of Blaser LRN downrange and it will take over 12 hours to get the leading out and restore it's accuracy.
BTW, you can identify the 2006 vintage ECM rifling by it's appearance. The rifling will be radiused between lands and grooves instead of sharp cornered and can best be described as "shot out and worn out". Note, it's not shot out and worn out, it's simply a a sort of polygonal barrel with a bit different shape to it.
BTW, you can identify the 2006 vintage ECM rifling by it's appearance. The rifling will be radiused between lands and grooves instead of sharp cornered and can best be described as "shot out and worn out". Note, it's not shot out and worn out, it's simply a a sort of polygonal barrel with a bit different shape to it.
Similar threads
