At 50yd why bother with scope?

[Buzzzer]

Interesting thread! My take on the original OP's text is I agree 100%. However, as I get older my eyes are not what they used to be and having a scope beyond 50 yards is a big help. None of my rifles currently wears a scope although I do have a few. Maybe it's just me and my darned "will" keeping them off (old fart syndrome I guess). I've never tried red dots or the like, just didn't think I could trust them not to die on me in the field somewhere.

As to the AR topics - I don't own one but if I ever did it would be an AR-10. I've shot a few of both (AR-15 & 10) and don't think recoil is much of an issue. IMHO the AR-10 is better for utilitarian use, hunting and such, as well as defense. Of course if you reload that helps.

Funny story from one of my boys (men now) who is a Marine (the other is in the Army). He said in boot camp many of the guys who had shot rifles before never used iron sights growing up. They had always used scopes, red dots and the like. He thought it was pretty funny that he had to "coach" them on their use...

 

[cyphertext]

Unfortunately I have had issues with my 9mm PMags that came with my Sub-2K, in that the "17+1" Pmags only fit 16rd and the spring would bind (much like the above "31" loaded AR Pmag in the YouTube video). I had to revert back to using only S&W 17+1 9mm mags in my Sub-2K as a result.

Hence the reason I asked about the PMags that come with the Sport II AR15. I guess that I am a bit leery, considering my past PMag experience in 9mm Sub-2K was not the best.

That said above, the idea underlying the "tactical reload" scenario/situation sounds like the most believable reason for having/using a less-than full magazine when reloading with a closed bolt on an AR15. Not trying to sow discontent, but having an easier time reloading magazines sounds like a plus to me, even at the range.

Yes, others have reported issues with Pmags for other platforms, but the Pmags for AR-15/M16 are good to go. SOCOMM, Marine Corps, and USAF have adopted the Gen 3 Pmag as the official magazine after extensive testing.

One part of the test included loading a full magazine on a closed bolt.

Marines get groundbreaking, unstoppable new rifle magazine | Fox News

 

[sgtsandman]

I would test the magazines with a full load and see if you can seat the mag in the rifle with a closed bolt without too much effort. If you can't, the 29 round load out guideline would be the way to go. Chances are very slim that, that one round is going to make a difference. Even though I haven't had issues with my mags being fully loaded, I still use the 29 round load out because, Murphy's Law.


In the end, it's your rifle. I'm just some guy on the internet. You'll be the final judge on what to do or not do.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Yes, others have reported issues with Pmags for other platforms, but the Pmags for AR-15/M16 are good to go. SOCOMM, Marine Corps, and USAF have adopted the Gen 3 Pmag as the official magazine after extensive testing.

One part of the test included loading a full magazine on a closed bolt.

Marines get groundbreaking, unstoppable new rifle magazine | Fox News

My Sport II came with a Gen 2 Pmag, so I ordered a handful of Gen 2 Pmag's as backup. Is there any real "functional" difference between Gen 2&3 in the Sport?

 

[cyphertext]

My Sport II came with a Gen 2 Pmag, so I ordered a handful of Gen 2 Pmag's as backup. Is there any real "functional" difference between Gen 2&3 in the Sport?

I posted this vid awhile back when there was discussion. If you are only using them in an AR style rifle, I don't see much difference. Mine are mostly gen 2.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUnJDjrnXvA&feature=emb_logo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUnJDjrnXvA&feature=emb_logo[/ame]

 

[shep854]

Now that the thread seems to be well and truly swerved, another factor with mags locking under a closed bolt while fully loaded is the minute variations between different ARs or builds. In this video, Chuck Pressberg (retired Ranger) shows how different mags and rifles may not play well together.
This isn't to grind an axe, but to share information for consideration.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiBtg4NgQc0[/ame]

 

[Rastoff]

Unfortunately I have had issues with...[insert whatever here]

If you haven't had an issue with at least some magazines, you're not shooting very much. The one issue I've had somewhat consistently with P-Mags is dropping free. They don't always drop free when the mag catch is pressed. Not the end of the world and won't prevent the gun from shooting. Neither does it significantly slow an emergency or tactical reload. Still, it is an issue.

I posted this vid awhile back when there was discussion. If you are only using them in an AR style rifle, I don't see much difference. Mine are mostly gen 2.

Biggest difference in Gen 3 was a stop. Prevents over insertion of the mag when loading bolt open. Otherwise, no big deal. I have both and I'm not trading in my Gen 2 mags.

 

[cyphertext]

The video shep854 is pretty much spot on... try your mags with your gun and then decide.

 

[cyphertext]

The one issue I've had somewhat consistently with P-Mags is dropping free. They don't always drop free when the mag catch is pressed. .

I have ran into that once... turned out to be an out of spec lower. it was with my dedicated .22lr AR, that has a standard, multi-caliber receiver. The .22lr magazine would drop free, but a Pmag and a GI mag would not. CMMG replaced the lower to correct it.

 

[WR Moore]

FWIW, if you plan on leaving your P-Mags loaded all the time, I'd install the dust covers that came with the mags. At least in those in reserve. This does several things: takes the strain off the feed lips and keeps dust and critters out of the magazines. If you're chamber emptly/loaded mag, the bolt is doing what the dust cover does.

It's also a good idea to have some 20 round mags around. You look at least slightly less like a Rambo wannabe. More importantly, if you load some mags with expanding bullet ammunition, it lets you identify those from the ball mags (30 round) by feel as well as visually.

 

[BAM-BAM]

FWIW,

It's also a good idea to have some 20 round mags around. You look at least slightly less like a Rambo wannabe. More importantly, if you load some mags with expanding bullet ammunition, it lets you identify those from the ball mags (30 round) by feel as well as visually.

My take......................as a civilian..........

10rd mags meet 99.99% of civilian AR needs/use....................

20rd mags ..... for SHTF....... (and 1st mag if in a vehicle.)

30rd mags .....for TEOTWAWKI.........


As an aside .........
I also have a Ruger Mini-14 ( the NRA short 16.2" heavy barrel model).... set up with Hogue gillie stock , 550 sling and 1-3x20 scope........ with a 10rd mag (factory) in the gun backed up with 2-4 20rd factory mags.....

It makes a low profile SHTF grab and go suburban/country rifle that fits behind the truck seat........................

 

[old tanker]

I was using an XM16E1 for its intended purpose in 1968. A 6.5 pound rifle that could reliably hit a man's chest at 300 meters was and is a useful thing. M193 ball had a well deserved reputation for good terminal effect on thin skinned targets.

The M16A2 was within half a pound of the M14 and a pound heavier an AR-10. A tricked out M4 is nearly as heavy as a BAR. So, pays yer money and take yer choice, BUT I am still seeing more guys with grey hair shooting 600 yard targets "over the course" with iron sights while the 5.11 wearing young'uns doing mag dumps at 50 meters with 6.5x10 Barskas.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Oldtanker; I'm guessing your about 5-6 years older than me if you're still shooting irons at 600 yards ...... god bless you.

I shot irons on High School and College Rifle teams (67-75) about the same time you were in RSVN........ today I appreciate any help I can get beyond 100yds......

 

[Okie21]

If you're comfortable with iron sights, I say go for it. Save your $$ if you don't need anything else. I have one AR set up with pop up irons and a red dot. The other with a 1-4x scope. Both are quick to acquire targets at the range you mentioned.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[old tanker]

Oldtanker; I'm guessing your about 5-6 years older than me if you're still shooting irons at 600 yards ...... god bless you.

I shot irons on High School and College Rifle teams (67-75) about the same time you were in RSVN........ today I appreciate any help I can get beyond 100yds......

I have just been lucky. My Dad had exceptional eyesight and was in his eighties when he got his first set of corrective lenses. I got to 67 before I needed readers. But age affects night vision too. I appreciate what optics can do. If I was forced back into two-way live fire, I'd want a good military grade thermal sight. They work day or night and it's warm bodies that are dangerous, the cold and stiff ones have been overcome by events.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I have just been lucky. My Dad had exceptional eyesight and was in his eighties when he got his first set of corrective lenses. I got to 67 before I needed readers. But age affects night vision too. I appreciate what optics can do. If I was forced back into two-way live fire, I'd want a good military grade thermal sight. They work day or night and it's warm bodies that are dangerous, the cold and stiff ones have been overcome by events.

Cataracts run in our family..... grandfather,Dad and me...... I'm 20/15/ 20/20 today ......with lots of "readers" scattered around.

Be safe ..... be well

 

[Moe Mentum]

I have a red dot, co witnessed with the iron sights. Can't see those tiny holes beyond 50 yards anyway...

 

[AManWearingAHat]

I appreciate all of your varied advice/opinions RE +- regarding scopes.
As a followup, now that I have acquired a few additional magazines for my new MP-15 Sport II, I am looking for advice regarding these "30rd Magpul" magazines:

1. How often should I consider emptying and "resting" each magazine? Week? Months? A year?
   
2. How about alternating 4-mags on while 4-mags are resting? Am I over thinking this?...
   
3. If I want to leave the magazine(s) loaded for extended lengths of time, should I only load say ~25 of the 30 capacity in order to preserve the spring?
   
4. Is it detrimental to leave a full 30rd magazine fully loaded permanently?
   

THANKS in advance!

I am a professional metallurgist. The real answer is never. Magazines don't "take a set" from being left compressed. Cycling springs, and corrosion is what wears springs out. "Resting" springs does nothing. Overloading a spring can damage it, but any magazine made in the last 30 years by a decent manufacturer has an appropriate spring in it such that being loaded with 30 rounds will do no damage to it versus down loading.

 

[Nevada Ed]

In my neck of the woods.........

that better be one BIG threat at 50 yards, before I pull the trigger.

The Judge might throw the book at me if there was no real threat at that range.

Now, 30 feet might be a different story.

 

[krsmith58]

IRON or SCOPE ???

i used to not care for the AR platform but picked 1 up in a trade that changed my mind . i like the ones with removeable carry handle . i traded for a flat top AR 10 . put a scope on it and it shoots much better than me . i also put a set of 45 degree iron on it . i really like it . scope=long range turn rifle still shouldered 45 degrees and you are on irons. seemed that a good compromise to me . can hit what i shoot at with both . scope over 50 yrds iron inside 50 . kenny