Why NOT to Carry a .38 Snub

[JayFramer]

Check out what vaunted gun writer and shootist Jim Grant has to say about the failings of the .38 snub for defense work:

Four Reasons to NEVER Carry Just a .38 Snubnose

Interesting article and he has some points worthy of consideration. I have been wrestling with carrying one of the new high-capacity micro 9s like the P365 or Hellcat, or just carrying an old-fashioned (many would say obsolete) .38 snub.

What do you guys think about this article?

 

[Univibe]

5 bangs, some clicks, no reload. You die.

Don't fool around. Get a P365.

 

[Breakaway500]

"Compact, reliable and fool-proof." After that..the article is mostly about his shortcomings.

Snub is not accurate. Marksmanship is 99.9% on the shooter.

Anything less than 357 isn't "good" enough for self defense.
He obviously has never needed a weapon for a real self defense moment.38 Special will pretty much stop any threat other than a moving truck.

The kick is too much. Idiot picked plastic grips..just about the worst choice for handling recoil.

Difficult reloads. Another way of saying he won't PRACTICE with speedloaders.



"a .38 snub nose is a dangerously effective tool when employed correctly"

Best reason to carry one!

 

[Sheepdogged]

"Four Reasons to NEVER Carry Just a .38 Snubnose... What do you guys think about this article?

I think the author's use and capitalization of the word "NEVER" made me lose interest in reading the article. He also said ".38 Special Terminal Ballistics Suck". That is hyperbolic and ultimately untrue. If he said that about .32 ACP I probably would not take issue with it, but .38 Special is certainly a much better choice than that round as long as someone chooses the right ammunition and practices with it. If the author soberly set out to have a frank yet dispassionate discussion about the pro's and con's of a .38 snub nosed revolver, I would take it seriously and likely find it helpful, but I can't take the trash talk seriously.

Raul Martinez, the training director and lead "combatives coach" at The FieldCraft Survival, for example, carries a .38 snubby to and from work because he knows that, in that situation, he is only interested in breaking contact (YouTube). Martinez is obviously a professional and knows what he's talking about, so if he feels confident in his choice, who is the author to say his choice sucks?

Is a snubnose .38 over prescribed to women and older people? Yes, probably (and certainly it was ten years ago), but that is far from saying a .38 snubby sucks as it really depends on the person and the mission (no one would choose it as a sidearm for patrol). Moreover, plenty of people have adequately protected themselves with a .38 snubnosed revolver. Yes, plenty have people have also likely failed in that endeavor, but that can be said of handguns generally and even rifles and shotguns. I would say the effectiveness of breaking contact with a .38 snubby loaded with the right ammo and in the hands of a practiced shooter is certainly within the margin of error of someone in a similar situation carrying 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. It's similar to carrying a .380 ACP. It may not exactly inspire confidence for the average shooter, but it can get the job done, and sometimes a .38 is someone's only option.

 

[rwsmith]

The only thing I have against snubs......

I like snubs, I have two of them and never hesitated to keep them handy for self defense. In the last years, I've found them harder to shoot straight without a LOT of practice. If I go cold to a range, my first shots are not satisfactory at any distance. Then I get the hang of it again and shoot better.

But I can't tell a burglar, "Wait until I run down to the range and warm up." I have a several semis that I can grab and get off several good shots with right off the bat. So nowadays I depend on those.

 

[Neon Horse]

He lacks understanding and the realization that his generalizations also apply to dozens of pistols as well. I think he just needs to practice more so that he isn't a lousy shot.

 

[rwsmith]

I have a steel model 36......

...that is a DREAM to shoot. If I shoot one of my favorite loads, they aren't +P and they test just fine. 'Stout recoil', I can handle it easily. So the idea is to get a snub in .357. Now THAT has stout recoil and will deafen you indoors.

Now I do have an alloy model 38. That thing is brutal to shoot with mild ammo. I could never practice enough to be proficient, though in a tight situation I could handle it, pain and all better than nothing.

 

[Skeptic 9c]

This guy must live in a very high threat environment. The actual effectiveness of .38 Special 125 gr hp, and the similar load in 9mm and even the 357 SIG and .357 Magnum are about the same. See various tests by Paul Harrell and remember the significant emotional event called getting shot. Now, is a 3" or 4" better, yes, how much you be the judge. Geoff Who notes he is moving to a larger semi-auto, mainly because of the increased threat level in NE Florida. I carry a Ruger LCP at the moment.

 

[bmcgilvray]

Don't know how vaunted he should be considered after reading that.

He's just trying to stir up the natives.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Thank you for prompting us to read that drivel and generate our own drivel in reply.

The guy is not going to curry favor by condemning the .38 and he doesn't really provide a reasonable alternative. Recoil is a concept of perspective. If I hand you my Bond .45LC loaded with a 325 grain bullet and let you shoot that twice, then your perspective on the .38 will be much amended. You will likely say that it recoils much more tolerably than before.

The question of capacity is an easy sell. I have noticed over the years that capacity increase lays open the road for consumption increase. If I have a single shot .22 rifle and a handful of ammunition, my range session of twenty five shots is quite an intensive thing. However, if I have a rifle loaded with a 25 round magazine, I can increase my consumption of rounds quite substantially in the same period of time.

This opens an interesting box. How is it can I walk to the mailbox with a 9mm and feel like I am living dangerously without a reload? By the same logic if I were to carry a J Frame with four reloads I consider myself well equipped. I feel like it is a matter of how the ammunition is broken down and what exactly we expect to accomplish with it. I think folks who carry a large quantity of ammunition in their guns are, over time, accustomed to accomplishing less with more. They are not hesitating to crank off three rounds because that is maybe 20% of their ammunition supply. Results from shot one are not needed as shots four and five will surely connect and correct whatever number one failed to accomplish. Failing that there is the next magazine; until there isn't.

With a weapon of limited capacity, I tend to develop the best initial response. I have no quaternary backup plan involving the 37th round fired. I'm looking to solve the shooting problems one by one. I am aiming to win through effective marksmanship or avoidance completely. I simply cannot afford to expend 60% of my onboard ammunition supply dealing with one problem.

As far as ballistics or perceived power level go, the .38 is sufficient. It's not a hammer of Thor nor is it merely besting throwing rocks. It bothers me that people never seem to examine case efficiency with defensive rounds. I didn't either until I got into derringers. I learned from testing and hand loading about efficiency. The longer case is not as efficient at consuming its laser charge in the short barrel. We aren't stopping elephant either.

I believe that someone is going to make note of being shot effectively and I think the J Frame is capable of doing that. If I feel that I am getting into a higher level problem, well then I'll bring my .375 and deal with the elephant in the room.

 

[tops]

What do you guys think about this article?

It worked! Mission accomplished! He needed to write an article, get it published and get paid. Larry

 

[eb07]

Another " expert" who has probably never been in a physical confrontation let alone had to use a firearm in self defense. Glanced over it. Moved on.

 

[Goldstar225]

I think the article would have made a more compelling argument if it had been titled: "The .38 snubnose, a gun for skilled shooters"

IMO the .38 snubnose is not the ideal defensive side arm, if such a thing were to exist, but that doesn't mean that it won't do the job. I don't think it's the right choice for the low skills shooter for the very reasons that he cited.

Accuracy- In skilled hands the snub has far more accuracy than many claim and is certainly accurate enough at personal defense distances in skilled hands.

Ballistics - It's not the powerhouse of larger cartridges but with the right loads chosen it has sufficient penetration and at least some expansion to reach the vitals without overwhelming recoil.

Recoil- Again a reason not to chose it for the low skilled or person sensitive to recoil (same for the cartridges he recommends i.e. .357).

Reload speed - Yep, use a speedloader or speed strips and PRACTICE. He comments of reloading with "slippery" cartridges. That's very true of loose rounds. Solve that with the speedloader or speed strip.

There is no one perfect gun for everyone or every scenario. Not the 1911, not the double stack 9mm/40.

While my 642 has been relegated to "sometimes" carry and replaced with my Shield 9mm I am far from defenseless with the 642.

 

[Sistema1927]

These wheel gun versus bottom feeder discussions never end well on other forums.

Maybe it will be a bit better here. Maybe.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Skimmed the article. Meh. Nothing new.

 

[ContinentalOp]

These wheel gun versus bottom feeder discussions never end well on other forums.

Maybe it will be a bit better here. Maybe.

 

[LCC]

Raised on revolvers, good to go with a J frame. Came into shooting on semi's, way to stay.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Internet commando. I've got case studies of MANY untrained individuals successfully killing others with rimfires, 380's 32's etc with absolutely NO formal training whatsoever. They' are called "defendants" and sometimes "clients" Most use autos simply because they are cheaper and easier to get than revolvers. In fact is is the aberration when a bad guy is found with a revolver-most prefer the semi auto. Perhaps they have read this guy's article and taken his advice

 

[transit]

"...a 2" .38 Special recoils too much, so you should get a 3" .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum..."

 

[AJ]

Just because he is a gun writer does not give him any bonafides..........