Victory data base

[Absalom]

Thanks for the information. I do have it cataloged in my accumulation as a "Post War M&P."

As an additional thought, it is really best to think about the Victory not as a separate gun, but simply a continuation of the same M&P through the war years. The different finish, stocks, and swivel of the Victory were peripherals. This is also reflected in the factory all through Victory production never calling the gun anything other than .38 M&P.

The M&P is the only model which has that continuity. All others experienced a hiatus and it makes sense to talk about pre-war vs. post-war parts.

 

[tymekeeper]

Can you tell us if there are any markings on the left side topstrap, such as "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D" or "U.S. NAVY"?

Also, are there any flaming ordnance bombs stamped on the revolver such as the one seen on in the butt pic I have provided? (The flaming ordnance bomb is to the left of the "V" on the example I have provided a pic of.)

Dale

There are no markings on either side of the topstrap.
There is a stamp of the flame and very top arc of the bomb shown in your pic. It is located on the butt, to left of the swivel. the whole serial no. is to the right of the swivel.

 

[opoefc]

Add to data base. V749985, converted to .22Rf by Parker-Hale, London. New 6 in Bbl. , adjustable sights , non S&W stocks, Merchon grip adapter British proofs. Ed.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Add to data base. V7749985 Ed.

Thanks, Ed. However, it appears that the serial number has at least one too many digits in it. Can you take another look at it, please?

 

[ordnanceguy]

Got it, Ed. Thank you.

 

[Abarbanel]

I picked up a Victory revolver late last year. Its serial number is V110017. The top strap is marked U.S. NAVY. The cylinder is marked with this number as well as the underside of the barrel, underside of the extractor star and the right grip.
The left side of the grip frame has a 0. There are two 5s on it. One 5 has a 0 or o struck over its lower part.
The right side of the grip frame has a punch mark and what looks to be a flaming bomb on its side. There is a L and a 6 or a B. The is something that also looks like an upside down T.
The Yoke has a 5 and 10 separated from it and assembly number of 59723. The yoke frame area has a 5 and the assembly number 59723.

I wanted to add this to the database or see if it is already on it. Any ideas on when it shipped and where it may have originally been shipped. to?
Thank you.

 

[DWalt]

V110017 probably shipped around September-October 1942. The closest SN I have listed is V109432 which shipped on 9/28/42. As to where it was first shipped, about all that can be said was to some Navy supply depot. Navy guns were marked with the "U. S. NAVY" property stamp until about SN V265xxx.

 

[kennyb]

Feel free to add to the data base.Feel free to educate me as its my first Victory model.
It came with what I believe is the original brown holster,large US stamp and stamped 1943 on the back.
Roy dates it to Jan.1943
.38 S&W special cartridge on the right side of the 4" barrel.
serial # V 438367 Butt,under barrel,cylinder
lanyard in place
original walnut grips
small P upper left of strap
V P and maybe C (maybe s) rear of cylinder in addition to the serial number.
greyish parkerized finish overall very nice condition.Any information is greatly appreciated.I have a lot of Smith and colts however I know pretty much zilch on the fine victory models.THANKS in advance!!

 

[DWalt]

"Roy dates it to Jan.1943 38 S&W special cartridge on the right side of the 4" barrel. serial # V 438367 Butt,under barrel,cylinder"

He may have said that, but 1/43 seems to be much too early for that SN. Most of them on my list with SNs in the same neighborhood shipped around October 1943. The highest SN I see for a 1/43 shipment is around V 239xxx. See: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/victory_model_smith_and_wesson.htm

 

[Absalom]

....
It came with what I believe is the original brown holster,large US stamp and stamped 1943 on the back.
Roy dates it to Jan.1943
......
small P upper left of strap
V P and maybe C (maybe s) rear of cylinder in addition to the serial number.

I saw where Roy said that and was a bit nonplussed. I agree with DWalt that this is hard to reconcile with our available data.

In addition, by your description your gun shows the P proofs on cylinder and left frame which were not applied in those locations until late 1943.

You don‘t mention any topstrap property stamping. If there isn‘t one, the gun was most likely a DSC contract gun shipped to a civilian end user, and it‘s less likely that the military holster you have came with it from the war.

 

[kennyb]

I saw where Roy said that and was a bit nonplussed. I agree with DWalt that this is hard to reconcile with our available data.

In addition, by your description your gun shows the P proofs on cylinder and left frame which were not applied in those locations until late 1943.

You don‘t mention any topstrap property stamping. If there isn‘t one, the gun was most likely a DSC contract gun shipped to a civilian end user, and it‘s less likely that the military holster you have came with it from the war.

there are no topstrap markings...I did locate the ordinance bomb on the butt,next to the V

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello KennyB:

Thanks for providing the information on your revolver for the Database. From the Database I would estimate that your revolver V438367 likely shipped from the factory in the November, 1943 time frame.

 

[kennyb]

Hello KennyB:

Thanks for providing the information on your revolver for the Database. From the Database I would estimate that your revolver V438367 likely shipped from the factory in the November, 1943 time frame.

Charlie,Thanks so much sir..and to all that have information.We are all so fortunate to have a forum such as this one!

 

[grendelbean]

U.S. Navy Victory Model for Data Base

I believe this is a U.S. Navy order Victory Model the Serial is:
V200929 and it has the stamping "U.S. NAVY" on the left side of the top strap.
Serial in all the correct places except stocks. Although they are the correct type stock, they are replacements with no numbers.
On the right grip frame there are stampings that I haven't seen a lot: "1161", R and a square stamp (both 1 mm in size), at the heel is the stamp of a diamond shape and at the top of the back strap under the grip is the Letter "V".
Otherwise seems a standard victory model with what seems to be a Black Magic-style finish.
Of course it is in .38 S&W SPECIAL.
Thanks.

 

[grendelbean]

I believe this is a U.S. Navy order Victory Model the Serial is:
V200929 and it has the stamping "U.S. NAVY" on the left side of the top strap.
Serial in all the correct places except stocks. Although they are the correct type stock, they are replacements with no numbers.
On the right grip frame there are stampings that I haven't seen a lot: "1161", R and a square stamp (both 1 mm in size), at the heel is the stamp of a diamond shape and at the top of the back strap under the grip is the Letter "V".
Otherwise seems a standard victory model with what seems to be a Black Magic-style finish.
Of course it is in .38 S&W SPECIAL.
Thanks.

After thinking more about the grip frame stampings I wonder if they mean the gun was refinished at the factory in November 1961? That from the Diamond stamped on the heel and the "1161" stamped on the toe of the left side of the grip strap.
This may not be an unreasonable assumption, as I know they were still in use after 1961. I was issued a Victory Model in 1963 as a Naval Aviator, was issued another one (2" barrel) when I first got to Vietnam on the Naval Intelligence Staff, and finally had to qualify with a 4" Victory Model in 1973 when first assigned to the Naval Investigatiave Service Office in New York. So - a Victory Model being refinished and reissued in 1961 doesn't seem too far fetched. Can anyone, who actually knows, add some real knowledge?

 

[tenntex32]

After thinking more about the grip frame stampings I wonder if they mean the gun was refinished at the factory in November 1961? That from the Diamond stamped on the heel and the "1161" stamped on the toe of the left side of the grip strap.
This may not be an unreasonable assumption, as I know they were still in use after 1961. I was issued a Victory Model in 1963 as a Naval Aviator, was issued another one (2" barrel) when I first got to Vietnam on the Naval Intelligence Staff, and finally had to qualify with a 4" Victory Model in 1973 when first assigned to the Naval Investigatiave Service Office in New York. So - a Victory Model being refinished and reissued in 1961 doesn't seem too far fetched. Can anyone, who actually knows, add some real knowledge?

Pics of the example and markings in question would help greatly.

Sounds like you have much firsthand experience with the Victory model. Would you happen to have any pics of yourself with any of them while you were in the Navy?

You know we love pics of Victory models in actual use!

Dale

 

[Absalom]

After thinking more about the grip frame stampings I wonder if they mean the gun was refinished at the factory in November 1961? That from the Diamond stamped on the heel and the "1161" stamped on the toe of the left side of the grip strap.
.... So - a Victory Model being refinished and reissued in 1961 doesn't seem too far fetched. Can anyone, who actually knows, add some real knowledge?

Stranger things have happened. But I doubt very much that the Navy would have bothered.

I could envision a collector having the factory recondition his Victory. The un-numbered stocks would fit with that. Back in 1961 the S&W shop might have been flexible enough to take such jobs. You should ask Roy behind the SWCA curtain and maybe have Bill Cross run the serial.

 

[tenntex32]

I too am curious about the possible S&W rework markings. I have always heard that S&W would not do rework on Victory models, but I kinda took that as an absolute with regards to Victory models in civilian ownership.

Surely S&W wouldn't turn down refurbishment rework on a large enough batch from the Government/Navy...…...especially if Navy fliers still used them extensively post-WWII? (I still think that there would have been gobs of them still floating around in Navy supply/armory inventories so that actually having to have S&W repair/refurbish any of them would be a bit unusual and/or unnecessary.)

It does bring up a very interesting topic with regards to possible factory rework/refurbishment government contract(s) pertaining to the Victory model. You would think if it was truly a large need it would have been performed at an arsenal or armory level similar to what happened with the M1917 revolvers...…..but I've never really heard of either large scale factory refurbishment or arsenal refurbishment for Victory models for the govt/military.

Could it simply be it was easier for the smaller unit level to simply send Victory revolvers back to S&W as the need arose, versus trying to get a repair/replacement internally within the Navy supply chain? (Assuming S&W would even work on them?) It all seems a bit unusual to me, but heck I'm always surprised when it comes to "never say never".

Definitely much food for thought and actual data supporting either would be greatly appreciated!

Dale

 

[kenjen]

Here is another one to add, picked it up about a year ago. V1913xx 38. SW with a 5” bbl, flaming bomb and GHD on butt. Made in USA on right side and a large S&W logo on side plate. All matching numbers, Smith & Wesson on left side of bbl. and 38 s&w ctr on right side, address and patient date on the top.

 

[DWalt]

I too am curious about the possible S&W rework markings. I have always heard that S&W would not do rework on Victory models, but I kinda took that as an absolute with regards to Victory models in civilian ownership.

Surely S&W wouldn't turn down refurbishment rework on a large enough batch from the Government/Navy...…...especially if Navy fliers still used them extensively post-WWII. (I still think that there would have been gobs of them still floating around in Navy supply/armory inventories so that actually having to have S&W repair/refurbish any of them would be a bit unusual and/or unnecessary.)

It does bring up a very interesting topic with regards to possible factory rework/refurbishment government contract(s) pertaining to the Victory model. You would think if it was truly a large need it would have been performed at an arsenal or armory level similar to what happened with the M1917 revolvers...…..but I've never really heard of either factory refurbishment or arsenal refurbishment for Victory models for the govt/military.

Definitely much food for thought and actual data supporting either would be greatly appreciated!

Dale

My assumption was that if refurbishment of Victories had been required, at least in any quantity, they would have been sent to one of the military arsenals where that sort of work was done routinely rather than back to S&W.