Relevance of Short Barreled Big Bore Revolvers for Modern Self-Defense

[CH4]

We're on a forum populated by us revolver loving luddites, so keep that in mind and expect that to color a lot of the responses.

No, I don't think the revolver is still relevant. For awhile they held on with ultra small carry revolvers (J frames, LCR, etc) and big revolvers for big game, and those still have their advantages, but even they are getting supplanted by small autos like the LCP, G43, an P365, or more powerful autos like the Glock 20 by more and more users.

The full size service revolver has not been relevant for some time. If we're playing the statistics game, none of us are ever going to get into a gunfight in the civilian world, so we may as well just not carry a gun at all, but since we're clearly not going down that road, we may as well use the best tools for the job.

For less than the weight and less than the size (and less than the price...) of a 2.5" Model 19/66 I can use my P365XL and have twice the capacity, faster reloads, better reliability (this gets debated to death, I've had many more issues with revolver reliability than I have with modern autos, and the revolver failures have all been show stoppers until you can get back to the workbench), and similar or better ballistics due to the barrel lengths.

Will a revolver still kill someone dead? Damn right it will. Is it the best defensive tool? Absolutely not. They're still neat and I still love em but we can all do that without ignoring progress in the defensive gun space.

Relevance is a matter of perspective, preference, environment, ability, etc.; what's not relevant to you may be relevant to someone else.
From my perspective, and that of many others, revolvers still hold significant relevance in the personal defense world; firearms manufacturers would likely argue the same.

 

[uncleted327]

No.

1. Contrary to what people believe, reloading a revolver in a short range shootout is virtually impossible. Six is all you get.

2. Gangstas travel in packs, and most of them have semis.

3. Forget statistics. Plan for worst cases when it's your life.

4. How many pros stake their life on a big bore revolver?

5. Load your big bore revolver with dummies
Challenge someone with an airsoft pistol to a fight. You will be humbled, and you will go out and buy a double stack plastic gun.

6. See videos of real encounters
You can empty that revolver in 2 or 3 seconds. Then what?

7. Nobody in the civilian nor LEO world understands the concept of suppression fire
The above mentioned airsoft kid does. He's been in hundreds of realistic shootouts. Suppression uses ammo.

This is your new average. You're in a cell phone store. Three armed thugs come in. One fires a shot at the ceiling. They announce a robbery. You with your revolver are almost hopelessly outgunned. If you contrive to live, you can discuss how things don't change with Mr Campbell.

If you choose revolver, perhaps Mr. Tom Givens will condescend to speak your eulogy when you run out of ammo and die.

This is some of the most ridiculous drivel I've read in a long time.

 

[Doug M.]

My old agency did in fact have a scenario in which suppressive fire was needed. It was darned odd and likely will never happen again, but it is possible. They used enough ammo that an armory run was needed to get more ammo for the personnel on scene. The general rule is that the best suppressive fire is right smack in the offender's 10 ring.

Ballistically, a big(ish) bore revolver can be perfectly adequate. I'm not a cop anymore, so I am not duty bound to look for and interdict bad guys. When that was my world, I carried a lot of magazines for my duty pistol whatever it was; a spare mag for my BUG, and several spares for my AR. I could be a long way from backup, and anyone who does not allow for Murphy is a fool.

I do my retired qualifications with different platforms on a regular basis. In reality, though, a semi-auto with a RDS is the right answer when I am doing more than just commuting to work (G33 in a pocket holster is my EDC for a lot of good reasons, and I always carry a spare mag and a Surefire light). I am better trained with a semi-auto as a function of my age and opportunities. In reality, I am more likely to be able to justify hitting someone with my car than any other fact pattern, and a car is one heck of a better weapon.

Remember that a handgun is what one carries when there is no specific reason to expect to need a firearm. If you can predict that need and are not duty-bound to be there, be somewhere else. If you have to be there, take a long gun and all the armed friends you can find.

 

[majick47]

OP has some valid points but a short barrel large caliber/frame revolver has limited practicality for personal defense purposes by the military civilians and LE who have transitioned in mass to semi auto pistols.

 

[waffles]

Relevance is a matter of perspective, preference, environment ability, etc.; what's not relevant to you may be relevant to someone else.
From my perspective, and that of many others, revolvers still hold significant relevance in the personal defense world; firearms manufacturers would likely argue the same. :)

(bolding mine)

I'd argue they don't, given how much more production/marketing they're giving autos vs revolvers, and how S&W especially clearly feels just fine reducing revolver quality and simplifying the manufacturing to the point where I'm now on my 3rd broken J frame within the last 5 years.

If I had to come up with situations where the revolver makes a lot more sense, I come up with some potential future ban situation or someone not strong enough or otherwise disabled to the point that they can't rack an auto's slide. That's fair, and I'm sure there are others, but they are the exception.

There are reasons police/military agencies have long abandoned the revolver in favor of far better options, just as there are reasons we don't have weekly threads asking if the Glock 18/M&P/Sig 320 are still relevant.

That said, I'd wager none of us are going to be dead in the streets due to us choosing a revolver, just as we'd be fine going unarmed. Having any gun puts you ahead in a defensive situation, and hell, you'll see me around a camp in bear country with my redhawk and a pump gun, despite there being other options these days. Revolvers are damn cool and fun to shoot no matter how you slice it.

 

[tops]

Remember that a handgun is what one carries when there is no specific reason to expect to need a firearm. If you can predict that need and are not duty-bound to be there, be somewhere else. If you have to be there, take a long gun and all the armed friends you can find.

Makes sense too me! Larry

 

[Rich Richardson]

Like others have stated, a civilian gunfight scenario is about nil. I live in the Colorado mountains at 11,000 ft and I carry only for predator attacks.
To that end I carry a 629 loaded with Underwood 305.

 

[Univibe]

Like others have stated, a civilian gunfight scenario is about nil. I live in the Colorado mountains at 11,000 ft and I carry only for predator attacks.
To that end I carry a 629 loaded with Underwood 305.

A civilian gunfight scenario is plausible. I live in the Big City at 50 ft and I carry only for gangsta attacks.

To that end I carry a full size M&P9 and spare mag loaded with Winchester 124.

 

[Rich Richardson]

A civilian gunfight scenario is plausible. I live in the Big City at 50 ft and I carry only for gangsta attacks.

To that end I carry a full size M&P9 and spare mag loaded with Winchester 124.

Hopefully neither of us will need to use our weapons in either of our scenarios.

 

[Pef]

No.
....
This is your new average. You're in a cell phone store. Three armed thugs come in. One fires a shot at the ceiling. They announce a robbery. You with your revolver are almost hopelessly outgunned. If you contrive to live, you can discuss how things don't change with Mr Campbell.

.

With what you carry, what is your plan when three armed thugs walk into the store and fire the shot into the ceiling?

 

[robertrwalsh]

Statistics are nice, but if you have to whip it out and use it the stats have already gone sideways on you. And yes it is true, human predators often run in packs. Situational awareness is your friend.

 

[Echo40]

Frankly, I'm fed up with the insipid pursuit of the illusive ideal, one-size-fits-all platform for self-defense, so I just carry what works for me, and that's the approach that I would recommend to anyone, because I guarantee you that in the unfortunate event in which you actually have to draw your weapon in self-defense and pull the trigger, you'll be much better off using what is tried and true for you than the guy who endlessly jumps from gun to gun, cartridge to cartridge, holster to holster, etc in pursuit of the illusive ideal.

Carry what you're confident with, train well with it until you achieve proficiency, and spare yourself the stress and drudgery of following the latest trends just because some agency run by bureaucratic bean-counters claims that through exhaustive testing using vague or otherwise undisclosed methods/parameters they have discovered the ideal platform, if only for the sake of publicity and generating good faith.

Revolvers work just fine, they always have, and what they lack in capacity they more than make up for with their ability to fire much more powerful cartridges, simplistic manual of operation, and versatility.
If capacity were everything, then more police agencies would have most likely adopted the FN Five-seveN or more recently the Ruger-57. According to gunfight statistics, most gunfights are decided within 3 shots, not 17+. Funny how those who favor small caliber semiautomatic pistols always preach about shot placement as an argument against larger caliber cartridges, only to contradict that sentiment with their assertion that you can fit more rounds in the magazine, which you're totally going to need. So which is it, exactly? If any attacker can be successfully brought down with a single well-placed shot, then why is it so important that your gun carries over a dozen rounds of ammunition in the magazine?

Don't get me wrong, I myself carry a double-stack semiautomatic pistol, but not because I think that I need that many rounds, simply because I can carry them with ease, double-stacks tend to fit my hands better, and therefore there's no reason for me not to. I carry what I carry because it works for ME, and unlike some other folks, I'm not so insecure or otherwise egomaniacal that I feel the need to antagonize anyone who chooses to carry something else with insults and nonsensical contradictory rhetoric in a desperate attempt to validate my own personal choices by pushing them as an objective ideal.

This is the sort of senseless debate that only gun guys get into, everyone else in the entire world has the good sense to know that guns are guns, bullets are bullets, and that they don't want to be shot any amount of times by any caliber bullet anywhere on their body. (The illusive Crackerjack Boys driven by their addiction to caramel corn notwithstanding.)

 

[gwpercle]

Big bores make big holes ... big holes leak a lot .
My compact snub nosed carry revolver starts with 4 and ends with 5 .
Gary

 

[BAM-BAM]

Pharman......

Shots fired 1,2,2,8,2,6......... 6 shootouts .....21rds fired = an average of 3.5 rds per shootout.

But in those 6 shootouts "shots fired" ranged from 1 to 8

In 5 out of 6 a 6 shot revolver is enough 83%
In 4 out of 6 a 5 shot revolver is enough 66%

Statistics.............. can get you killed.

 

[lawandorder]

It would be interesting setting in a courtroom listening to some one explain away their "suppressive " fire and the dead & wounded innocents attached to it.

 

[CH4]

Relevance of Short Barreled Big Bore Revolvers for Modern Self-Defense Explain to me HOW you fire a 1/2 of a round??? Please!

By employing 6th grade math skills.

 

[snubbyfan]

I'll put it this way, in West Virginia, you can carry either concealed or open legally without a permit if you can legally purchase a handgun and people here do just that.
In our town, firearms are just a part of our home decor.
The local general store has hardware, groceries, gas, a post office, restaurant and also sells guns and ammo.
Anyway, if a few "gangtas" are stupid enough to want to start some trouble, they'll find at least a half dozen or so "hillbillies" shooting back.

 

[petepeterson]

Pharman......

Shots fired 1,4,8,2,6......... 5 shootouts .....21rds fired = an average of 3.5 rds per shootout.

But in those 5 shootouts shots fired ranged from 1 to 8

In 4 out of 5 a 6 shot revolver is enough 80%
In 3 out of 5 a 5 shot revolver is enough 60%

Statistics.............. can get you killed.

That's pretty deep. My head hurts. I'll switch back to my Steyr GB!

 

[Jack Flash]

Imagine JM in a grocery store when 3 gangstas come in and start shooting.

My money would be on JM even if he was armed only with a two shot derringer.

 

[dave1918a2]

The best defensive gun is the one You have in hand when needed. If possible, duck, cover, and assess. No one walks out the door expecting a gun fight. Those that do, do not carry a handgun as a primary. And remember--- practice,practice, practice.