Relevance of Short Barreled Big Bore Revolvers for Modern Self-Defense

[YkcorCal]

Relevance of Short Barreled Big Bore Revolvers for Modern Self-Defense

I agree with BOB CAMPBELL when he said in his article in "The Shooter's Blog" APRIL 14, 2020: "After many years of carrying a defensive handgun, I find the same formula works today that worked as when I began studying handguns decades ago."

While the majority of concealed carry handgun permit holders carry semi-autos is that the best choice in all cases for all people for self-defense purposes?

What are the statistics of the armed confrontations? Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted statistics tell us that during the 10 year period between 2004 and 2013, 219 of the 474 officers killed by gunfire in the USA were shot from a distance of no more than five feet. The next deadliest range was six to 10 feet, with 77 officers killed. In contrast, only 27 were killed at distances over 50 feet.

According to master defensive firearms instructor Tom Givens, most gunfights involving civilians and felons takes place at a distance of approximately three to five yards, approximately three and one-half rounds are fired, and no further shooting takes place after approximately three seconds.

What do the above statistics tell us?

Can a big bore revolver still be relevant in an average modern day gunfight today?

 

[Univibe]

No.

1. Contrary to what people believe, reloading a revolver in a short range shootout is virtually impossible. Six is all you get.

2. Gangstas travel in packs, and most of them have semis.

3. Forget statistics. Plan for worst cases when it's your life.

4. How many pros stake their life on a big bore revolver?

5. Load your big bore revolver with dummies
Challenge someone with an airsoft pistol to a fight. You will be humbled, and you will go out and buy a double stack plastic gun.

6. See videos of real encounters
You can empty that revolver in 2 or 3 seconds. Then what?

7. Nobody in the civilian nor LEO world understands the concept of suppression fire
The above mentioned airsoft kid does. He's been in hundreds of realistic shootouts. Suppression uses ammo.

This is your new average. You're in a cell phone store. Three armed thugs come in. One fires a shot at the ceiling. They announce a robbery. You with your revolver are almost hopelessly outgunned. If you contrive to live, you can discuss how things don't change with Mr Campbell.

If you choose revolver, perhaps Mr. Tom Givens will condescend to speak your eulogy when you run out of ammo and die.

 

[CH4]

5, 6, 8, 17 how many rounds are enough? You can play 'what if' scenarios all day long. Suppression fire, really. I am afraid to ask what you carry. M249?

 

[Breakaway500]

Hits on target are what count. Whatever that takes is whats best for any individual. That and proper training are much more important than weapon choice.
I like big holes. I carry a 325PD with moons. A pill container holds 2 reloads so thats 18 rounds along for the ride.And I practice as much as possible.

 

[Rich Richardson]

Imagine JM in a grocery store when 3 gangstas come in and start shooting.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Statistics...................... averages.......... really!!!!

"three and a half rounds fired"........ really!!!!

The odds of one ever needing to fire their handgun is something like 1 in a 1,000,000 ( made up stat)........... so you can argue there's really no need to even carry a loaded gun.

My philosophy......................

Prepare for the worst... hope/pray for the best!

 

[tops]

I will agree with that statement.
"Suppression fire" is done with belt fed guns. Not pistols. Larry

 

[Grayfox]

Bigger holes are better.

 

[Old cop]

I was in a gunfight in 1974, had to reload w/a speedloader under fire, & was back in the fight in seconds. My agency transitioned to the Glock about 10 years later, a much better fighting tool for cops. My EDC is a 340PD (or LCP dictated by wardrobe needs) b/c light weight is a must given my back & hip issues. My preference would be my M&P Compact if I could tolerate the weight.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I've never seen a surveillance video of a real robbery or armed citizen encounter that involved or even needed a reload. If you use the OP's statistics, everyone should carry a Governor . . .

 

[petepeterson]

I carry 4 rounds in the mag...just to be on the safe side.

 

[IrishFritz]

Oh Boy
There are all sorts of statistics like the one that compares ratio of hits to rounds expended in police involved shootings. Back in the day when police carried 6 shot revolvers the ratio was 2 hits per 6 rounds expended, today its 2 hits per 13 rounds.
9MM, 40, and even 45acp are not sufficiently powerful to provide knock down energy so unless you are able to hit the central nervous system of a major artery like the aorta or the femoral , then your adversary will likely remain in the fight until their blood pressure drops to the point they shut down- that can be a very long time depending on the drugs in their system or their adrenaline load.
Anyone who is confronted by several adversaries who have the drop on you who chooses to engage will probably not survive the encounter- your only realistic choices are to comply or run if that is possible.
The old masters like Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton preached fast and accurate shot placement of high energy calibers as the best chance of survival.
This information does not come from me but from a very close friend who was Delta as a young man, spent 24 years as state police ending up as the swat team commander and now works for a defense contractor training group guys. As he once said, he's had more than a few sessions in the "Two Way" shooting gallery.
Lets hope none of us ever have to defend ourselves.

 

[max503]

No.

1. Contrary to what people believe, reloading a revolver in a short range shootout is virtually impossible. Six is all you get.

2. Gangstas travel in packs, and most of them have semis.

3. Forget statistics. Plan for worst cases when it's your life.

4. How many pros stake their life on a big bore revolver?

5. Load your big bore revolver with dummies
Challenge someone with an airsoft pistol to a fight. You will be humbled, and you will go out and buy a double stack plastic gun.

6. See videos of real encounters
You can empty that revolver in 2 or 3 seconds. Then what?

7. Nobody in the civilian nor LEO world understands the concept of suppression fire
The above mentioned airsoft kid does. He's been in hundreds of realistic shootouts. Suppression uses ammo.

This is your new average. You're in a cell phone store. Three armed thugs come in. One fires a shot at the ceiling. They announce a robbery. You with your revolver are almost hopelessly outgunned. If you contrive to live, you can discuss how things don't change with Mr Campbell.

If you choose revolver, perhaps Mr. Tom Givens will condescend to speak your eulogy when you run out of ammo and die.

I totally agree with this but dang. I just can't carry around that big of a gun all the time. That would be a part-time job in itself. So I practice a lot with my J frame. I can hold my own in my clubs shooting matches. I think regular, and I do mean regular practice is underrated.

 

[Old_Cop]

Suppressive fire is not an option for a police officer or an armed civilian at the present time.

 

[03hemi]

Statistically, the odds of you being in a gunfight as a civilian are nil.

 

[waffles]

We're on a forum populated by us revolver loving luddites, so keep that in mind and expect that to color a lot of the responses.

No, I don't think the revolver is still relevant. For awhile they held on with ultra small carry revolvers (J frames, LCR, etc) and big revolvers for big game, and those still have their advantages, but even they are getting supplanted by small autos like the LCP, G43, an P365, or more powerful autos like the Glock 20 by more and more users.

The full size service revolver has not been relevant for some time. If we're playing the statistics game, none of us are ever going to get into a gunfight in the civilian world, so we may as well just not carry a gun at all, but since we're clearly not going down that road, we may as well use the best tools for the job.

For less than the weight and less than the size (and less than the price...) of a 2.5" Model 19/66 I can use my P365XL and have twice the capacity, faster reloads, better reliability (this gets debated to death, I've had many more issues with revolver reliability than I have with modern autos, and the revolver failures have all been show stoppers until you can get back to the workbench), and similar or better ballistics due to the barrel lengths.

Will a revolver still kill someone dead? Damn right it will. Is it the best defensive tool? Absolutely not. They're still neat and I still love em but we can all do that without ignoring progress in the defensive gun space.

 

[Univibe]

Suppressive fire is not an option for a police officer or an armed civilian at the present time.

Why not? We're not talking belt fed tactics here.
You might have to burn 4 or 5 rounds to get to cover. You can do that if you're packing a M&P and a spare mag. Likely not, with a revolver.

 

[HardToHandle]

No.

5. Load your big bore revolver with dummies
Challenge someone with an airsoft pistol to a fight. You will be humbled, and you will go out and buy a double stack plastic gun.
.

In a world of compromise, we all do.
Univibe's experience with airsoft or sim rounds mirrors mine. I have done hours and dozens of scenarios in various digital weapons simulators, FATS, Meggitt, etc. I felt well trained.

Nothing compares to randomness of another human shooting back at you and moving 360 degrees. I got humbled. Run a few dozen drills and you have a realistic assessment of your capabilities. I do not always carry a double stack gun but I understand the major disadvantage of a wheel gun. Example is Texas has 99% chance electric grid - that still sucks when your pipes froze two days ago and you will be freezing for four more days.

Reminds me that I should find some simulation training locally to get practiced up. Occasional qualification shoots are not the same.

 

[BAM-BAM]

LOL...... 35/40 years ago as a predominantly revolver shooter who'd just watched "Serpico" .....
My thinking/imagination was that if I ever really thought I'd need a handgun on a given day....... I'd want two..... a hard hitting .357 magnum revolver.... back then either a 2 1/2 or 4" K-frame ( one speedloader)..... backed up by a Browning HP and 2 extra mags.

My thinking is if I couldn't resolve it with 6 rounds...... I wanted a "New York reload" with a bunch more rounds (13+1)..... and fastest reloads possible.................

Prepare for the worst ....hope for the best.

Today I'd want my 3" 66 and Beretta 92 Centurion 18+1... if I expected a SHTF day........ ...... and a long gun if at all possible!!!!


That said; for an average day in the Burgh..... mine is a 3913 +1 or 2 spare mags.................

 

[Sistema1927]

Read some Grant Cunningham, and you will soon realize that nobody can prepare for every possibility. In fact, much effort is wasted in trying.

As a result, you need to prepare for the plausible. For most of us, a revolver will handle those situations in which we might find ourselves. Especially if you are not frequenting drug hangouts and consorting with gangs.