38 special148 gr. lead wadcutters

[mikld]

Alox is a metal preserver, kinda like creosote. Long ago a caster/shooter experimented with alox as a bullet lube (I don't have my Lee manual handy. The origin of alox as a bullet lube is included there). He approached Lee and Lee started selling it as bullet lube. Often mistaken as plain "alox" is the old NRA formula of 50/50 alox and bees wax, which is also a good bullet lube. One of the main problems with plain alox is that too many use way too much and get sticky, smoky bullets (very common is the "more is better" idea which doesn't work for alox).

I occasionally use alox for my lighter revolver bullet loads but I thin it with mineral spirits and sometimes warm it. A light golden hue on the bullet is all that's necessary. I also use a mix of alox, Johnson's Paste Wax and mineral spirits, called "45-45-10".

Many can't handle the "mess", don't apply it properly, and give alox names like "Mule Snot" or other names not allowed here. Used properly, and understanding it's limitations, alox is a good, easy to use bullet lube...

Back to wadcutters and FWIW; I have a home defense load for one of my house guns; My 3" 38 Special uses a 150 gr (with my alloy), DEWC over a max load of W231 (not +P). Accurate out to 25+ yards and would be pretty effective on bad guys...

 

[AJ]

Alox is a metal preserver, kinda like creosote. Long ago a caster/shooter experimented with alox as a bullet lube (I don't have my Lee manual handy. The origin of alox as a bullet lube is included there). He approached Lee and Lee started selling it as bullet lube. Often mistaken as plain "alox" is the old NRA formula of 50/50 alox and bees wax, which is also a good bullet lube. One of the main problems with plain alox is that too many use way too much and get sticky, smoky bullets (very common is the "more is better" idea which doesn't work for alox).

I occasionally use alox for my lighter revolver bullet loads but I thin it with mineral spirits and sometimes warm it. A light golden hue on the bullet is all that's necessary. I also use a mix of alox, Johnson's Paste Wax and mineral spirits, called "45-45-10".

Many can't handle the "mess", don't apply it properly, and give alox names like "Mule Snot" or other names not allowed here. Used properly, and understanding it's limitations, alox is a good, easy to use bullet lube...

Back to wadcutters and FWIW; I have a home defense load for one of my house guns; My 3" 38 Special uses a 150 gr (with my alloy), DEWC over a max load of W231 (not +P). Accurate out to 25+ yards and would be pretty effective on bad guys...

I had used alox for years in my Lyman Luber/Sizer. Then a friend showed me how to powder coat. Have been doing that now for a couple of years. Works good for me.

 

[AJ]

Following is assuming that bullets are sized correctly , cases etc . Also 38 special mid range target ammo with lead wadcutter bullets .
Pretty much undisputed for serious target accuracy the HBWC is first choice . Especially for 50yd work rather PPC or 2700 quite a few have chosen factory & in BE circles the Remington Targetmaster ( green & white box ) or Win / Western Super Match ( yellow box ) were vogue .
Not many compete with a 38 special these days mainly due to lack of serious choices in that caliber .

These are some of the factory stuff that I have stored away.

 

[gwpercle]

How deep do you seat those when loaded with 5.0 grains of Unique?

I seat and crimp all of them in the crimp groove .
There are two bottom lube grooves and a crimp groove above them . This will leave a driving band and generous button nose protruding above the roll crimp .
The NOE version has a little more top driving band like a Keith SWC has ... which I like .
Gary

 

[Greenjoytj]

Wouldn't just be easier and more accurate at longer ranges to load 150 gr SWC instead of a full wadcutter. The hole in the paper target get cut as cleanly. Logistics, less types of bullet to keep in inventory, less casting,

 

[STORMINORMAN]

2 vs. 3 lube grooves?

I seat and crimp all of them in the crimp groove .
There are two bottom lube grooves and a crimp groove above them . This will leave a driving band and generous button nose protruding above the roll crimp .
The NOE version has a little more top driving band like a Keith SWC has ... which I like .
Gary

Every image I see shows three lube grooves and a slight crimp indentation...? I'm SO confused! ( With apologies to V. Barbarino)

Cheers!

 

[AJ]

Wouldn't just be easier and more accurate at longer ranges to load 150 gr SWC instead of a full wadcutter. The hole in the paper target get cut as cleanly. Logistics, less types of bullet to keep in inventory, less casting,

For all my paper punching I have gone to a 148 grain DEWC with 2.8 grains of Bullseye. These are seated flush with the case mouth, as the mid range match rounds are from the factory. I have five guns that are chambered for .38/.357 and this load works well in all. This gives me about 2,500 rounds per pound of powder. Less casting with a larger bullet? I prefer more bullets to the pound of lead. I have plenty of free time to cast, powder coat and size. The flush seated rounds allow me to use all in my S&W 52 if I want, no searching for the right bullets. The bullets pictured are just about 4/5's of what I have on hand and I also cast for .45 ACP, .45 Colt, 9 MM, .38pecial/.357 Magnum, .32 H&R Magnum, and .38 ACP/.38 Super.

 

[mojave30cal]

What does DEWC mean?

 

[AJ]

What does DEWC mean?

Double Ended Wadcutter.

 

[mikld]

Wouldn't just be easier and more accurate at longer ranges to load 150 gr SWC instead of a full wadcutter. The hole in the paper target get cut as cleanly. Logistics, less types of bullet to keep in inventory, less casting,

For revolver target shooting, both competition and informal, and inexpensive plinking/potting and small game out to 50 yards, a wadcutter is a very good, very popular choice. For accuracy over 50-75 yards a SWC would probably be better be better but for 38 Specials not a lot of shooters will consistently shoot their 38 that far (I know that many do but the vast majority of 38 Special shooting is way under 50 yards). There may be real "ballistic reasons" why one would choose a SWC over a WC, DE or HB, and it is greatly personal choice. I have two loads for my 38 Special wadcutter loads; for my "jes for trigger time" I use light loads of Bullseye or W231 under my cast 150 gr DEWC, and for my 38 house gun I use a max load of W231 under a WW alloy cast 150 gr DEWC. My house gun load is accurate out to 30 yards (longest I've tried) and the full caliber flat nose at 890 fps would be very effective...

 

[gwpercle]

Wouldn't just be easier and more accurate at longer ranges to load 150 gr SWC instead of a full wadcutter. The hole in the paper target get cut as cleanly. Logistics, less types of bullet to keep in inventory, less casting,

The Lyman 358432 / NOE 360-160-WC is more accurate in my revolvers than ANY other cast bullet .
I used to shoot NRA Bullseye Match and have tried every wadcutter and semi-wadcutter Lyman has offered over the last 50 years tested in a 38 special , model 64 built into a match pistol by Jim Clark , Jr. just to test loads in .
I've tested bullets from 105 gr. SWC to 170 gr. SWC at 50 yards with an optical sight . The #358432 design has been the best grouping of them all . I only cast one bullet now and just vary the powder charge to get the velocity I want ... I'm happy with the set up and thought others might like to hear of this bullet design .
Gary

 

[crstrode]

Back to wadcutters and FWIW; I have a home defense load for one of my house guns; My 3" 38 Special uses a 150 gr (with my alloy), DEWC over a max load of W231 (not +P). Accurate out to 25+ yards and would be pretty effective on bad guys...

I'm also a believer in the hard cast DEWC as a defensive load. I'm curious as to the seating depth you use and what is considered as the W-231 max load.

Loading a Rainier plated 150 grain bullet flush with about 4.7 grains of Unique shoots well for me. It yields a little less than 900 FPS from a 1-7/8 inch snubby.

However, that load in the reduced case volume has always caused me to wonder if it is creeping up to recognized standard pressure limits.

Please advise

 

[AJ]

The Lyman 358432 / NOE 360-160-WC is more accurate in my revolvers than ANY other cast bullet .
I used to shoot NRA Bullseye Match and have tried every wadcutter and semi-wadcutter Lyman has offered over the last 50 years tested in a 38 special , model 64 built into a match pistol by Jim Clark , Jr. just to test loads in .
I've tested bullets from 105 gr. SWC to 170 gr. SWC at 50 yards with an optical sight . The #358432 design has been the best grouping of them all . I only cast one bullet now and just vary the powder charge to get the velocity I want ... I'm happy with the set up and thought others might like to hear of this bullet design .
Gary

I have a PPC revolver built by Austin Behlert many years ago. I believe it started life as a Pre-Model 14. It loves 148 grain wadcutters. Will pretty much shoot a quarter sized group at 25 yards when I do my part (that is getting harder to do as I get older).

As the saying goes "your mileage may vary". Every gun will shoot one round better than other for the most part, What works for you may not work for me. So testing is a requirement to get the best out of your firearm. I am just lucky that all my .38 caliber firearms tolerate the 148 grain bullet.

AJ

 

[AJ]

I'm also a believer in the hard cast DEWC as a defensive load. I'm curious as to the seating depth you use and what is considered as the W-231 max load.

Loading a Rainier plated 150 grain bullet flush with about 4.7 grains of Unique shoots well for me. It yields a little less than 900 FPS from a 1-7/8 inch snubby.

However, that load in the reduced case volume has always caused me to wonder if it is creeping up to recognized standard pressure limits.

Please advise

I use a program called Quickload. It gives more data then the law allows. The chamber pressure for your load of a 150 grain bullet with 4.7 grains of Unique with a 1 7/8" barrel is 11,818 PSI. That the program considers safe, no warnings attached to it.

AJ

 

[mikld]

I'm also a believer in the hard cast DEWC as a defensive load. I'm curious as to the seating depth you use and what is considered as the W-231 max load.

Loading a Rainier plated 150 grain bullet flush with about 4.7 grains of Unique shoots well for me. It yields a little less than 900 FPS from a 1-7/8 inch snubby.

However, that load in the reduced case volume has always caused me to wonder if it is creeping up to recognized standard pressure limits.

Please advise

The most wadcutters I cast are with my Lee mold, which has a crimp groove (not a "true" DEWC, but a "button nose" Wadcutter). Many of the wadcutters I reload when seated flush will bulge some cases (internal taper too tight o some brass) so I mostly use my Lee mold. Early in my wadcutter loading I experimented a lot. I seated some cast (my 11 BHN alloy) flush in sorted brass out to the longest that would fit the cylinder of my Taurus 38, about 1//4"-3/8" beyond the case mouth. Most of my loads were around 3.0-3.2 gr Bullseye so there were no pressure worries. My house gun load is not +P and the max W231 load in my Speer #11 for a bevel based WC is very close to my load. The last time I ran some across my chrony I got 850 fps average from my 2" 38...

 

[AJ]

I have toyed with the idea of loading a Hollow Based Wadcutter backwards in the case. Would make a heck of a hollow point, maybe. Step up the velocity and see how it would do.......Anybody tried it?

 

[rockquarry]

I don't think Alox is available anymore. It was never used by itself as a bullet lube. It was mixed with beeswax to make Half & Half, NRA formula, or whatever else it may have been called. There are other lubes today that are of the same consistency as Half & Half and provide the same level of performance, including accuracy and freedom from bore leading.

Regarding wadcutters, and in an ideal situation, especially if you don't cast, try a minimum of four or five wadcutter bullets from different makers. And try different powder charges. I'd stick with Bullseye or something with a very similar burn rate. There is no blanket "best" wadcutter or "best" load. If you have an interest in the best accuracy, try a number of combinations and shoot benchrested groups at 25 yards. This will tell you far more about what's best for your gun than anything else will.

I realize components are hard to find now, but there aren't any shortcuts to the best load for your gun. I'd still search out sources to see what's in stock rather than being handicapped with one or two plain base or hollow base wadcutters that don't shoot well. Good luck-

 

[AJ]

I don't think Alox is available anymore. It was never used by itself as a bullet lube. It was mixed with beeswax to make Half & Half, NRA formula, or whatever else it may have been called. There are other lubes today that are of the same consistency as Half & Half and provide the same level of performance, including accuracy and freedom from bore leading.

Found this: Productos Alox Bullet Lube (Value 3-Pack) | eBay

I have a case for my Lyman Luber/Sizer, but do not use it. Since I started powder coating my bullets that is all that I use.

 

[mikld]

I don't think Alox is available anymore. It was never used by itself as a bullet lube. It was mixed with beeswax to make Half & Half, NRA formula, or whatever else it may have been called. There are other lubes today that are of the same consistency as Half & Half and provide the same level of performance, including accuracy and freedom from bore leading.

Alox bullet lube (liquid) is even available on Amazon, and my last purchase was from White Label Lubes. I'd say 90% has been used for tumble lubing and some mixed to make "45-45-10" and NRA, Half & Half stick lubes.

I tried the "Backwards HB WC" loads several years ago (30?). Some reported good results, but my results were poor. I loaded some with Bullseye, over the "normal" loads but not real hot. I shot into wet newsprint at about 15' and some the skirt collapsed and bullets veered in the media. Some the cavity clogged and the bullet acted like a solid. A few skirts ripped off, and a few expanded, but very inconsistently. I only tried about 25 rounds, but the load seemed too poor to continue. At that time I had a lot of Speer 158 gr JHP (short jacket) so I used them for my "SD" ammo...

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EDIT; And like a lot of reloading tools and components, many times the lack of a full description causes confusion. A bunch of reloaders just call their stick lubes of alox and wax, "NRA", "Half & Half", etc., "alox". In a post, alox alone usually means that thick brown liquid that is sticky and smelly, but works well...

 

[AJ]

I tried the "Backwards HB WC" loads several years ago (30?). Some reported good results, but my results were poor. I loaded some with Bullseye, over the "normal" loads but not real hot. I shot into wet newsprint at about 15' and some the skirt collapsed and bullets veered in the media. Some the cavity clogged and the bullet acted like a solid. A few skirts ripped off, and a few expanded, but very inconsistently. I only tried about 25 rounds, but the load seemed too poor to continue. At that time I had a lot of Speer 158 gr JHP (short jacket) so I used them for my "SD" ammo...]

Thanks for the info. Makes my mind up.