Average of 3 rounds...

Alan,
I know all ammo is hard to find at present, but I have never been able to find those ".5" rounds.

Are they only sold to law enforcement?
Can they be produced by handloading?
Do they work in autos, or revolvers only?
Are they hard to get out of leather cartridge loops?
Will they shoot to point of aim?

I gots to know!
Thanks in advance. :D

I think if you have a six-shot revolver, load with only three rounds and pull the trigger until the gun is empty than you have fired 0.5 rounds. But only if they are + P rated. ;)
 
Since 3-5 rds seems to be enough, next questions.

So what caliber? What barrel length? Blue, nickel, hard chrome?

Forged or MIM? Pre war or post war?
 
Yeah all this is good info...But i just don't know what caliber i should be carrying...Should i carry 380 or 9mm??? Is 38 special enough you think??? What good is it to know how many rounds i should have in my gun when i don't even know which gun to carry!!!! Now i'm really confused! carry more bullets of 380 and less of 9mm? Its tough this gettin old stuff!

When I was young and in school they were trying too teach me math and told me 2+2=4 and the next they told me 3+1=4 and now that I'm retired I have too decide when too get up and where too eat and where too go after I eat, etc. It has been confusion and difficult decisions all my life. :confused: Larry
 
Alan,
I know all ammo is hard to find at present, but I have never been able to find those ".5" rounds.

Are they only sold to law enforcement?
Can they be produced by handloading?
Do they work in autos, or revolvers only?
Are they hard to get out of leather cartridge loops?
Will they shoot to point of aim?

I gots to know!
Thanks in advance. :D

They're generally fired by one of those 1.75 children that Americans average . . .
 
All the info pertaining to self defense shootings is readily available on line if you take the time & trouble to look it up. Whether or not you believe it, different story.
 
I believe the original "3 shot" thing came from published long time NYPD averages of 2.7 shots per encounter. However, there was some mischief afoot in those stats.* After NYPD revised how they did their data, I used to mine the NYPD Firearms Discharge Reports for information/lessons learned. Stats on one officer/one BP shootings ran 3.5-4.7 shorts per encounter in the years I checked. OTOH, one officer/one BP gun fights (bullets going both ways) ran 6+ to 8+. I've got the last report here somewhere, but you can get each yearly report from the NYC ACLU website.

Tom Givens original stats gave a 2 shots per encounter average with the bulk of the incidents between 3-7 yards [5 avg.] with 2 yard/27 yards the extremes. However, I think his stats were slightly skewed by being weighted toward store keeper type incidents.

Yes, you can skew your stats anyway you want by either the questions you ask to how you mine your data. If you're reading a "study", the sections you have to really scrutinize are the Review of the Literature and the Procedures sections. There's generally a lot of chicanery in the one or both.

*Back in them thar days, the NYPD stats made up the bulk of the FBI Uniform Crime Report stats, so their data in those days is also suspect.
 
Last edited:
whether it is 3 or 5 rounds on average fired, how many are from the bad guy and how many are from the good guy? this makes a difference, too.
 
I feel much better about carrying a snub with those statistics. I also feel I can get my snub into action quicker than my autos.

You'll also die quicker when it runs dry in 3 seconds and the Jackboyz are still popping off rounds out of their Glocks.
 
Alan,
I know all ammo is hard to find at present, but I have never been able to find those ".5" rounds.

Are they only sold to law enforcement?
Can they be produced by handloading?
Do they work in autos, or revolvers only?
Are they hard to get out of leather cartridge loops?
Will they shoot to point of aim?

I gots to know!
Thanks in advance. :D

.5 rounds are used as warning shots . They have no bullet only priming and powder therefore have to be always held and fired at an upward angle . They are very inconvenient to carry , which very likely accounts for such a learned person as yourself not being aware of them. At one time there was some talk of maybe adding a crimp or wad to the case to make them easier to handle but that project failed when it was realized that this action would leave you with nothing more than the common blank round therefore doing away with the .5 round leaving the 2.5 and 3.5 crowd nothing to argue about. :eek::rolleyes:

Hope this helps .:D

Eddie
 
Last edited:
Anyone who has never happened upon a gunfight would likely be paralyzed at the speed with which they occur . . .


I have no doubt this is 100% true and it probably seams that your retractions happen in super slow motion. I have never been in a gun fight. But, I have seen some bad **** happen, where everything was normal, then it instantly went south and I could only move like putty. Then, it was all over one way or the other.
 
In ten years as a crime reporter I was on-scene soon after about 50 officer involved shootings and also covered perhaps 500 civilian homicides. The 3-3-3 rule is accurate, or at least was in the 1970s when most folks, including law enforcement, carried revolvers. It was very very rare to encounter a homicide victim with more than 1-3 wounds. The three law enforcement officers I knew who were killed in the line of duty all suffered single wounds. The only officer involved shooting I personally witnessed with more than 1-2 rounds was a case where the armed suspect was holding a woman hostage and when she escaped and dived away he raised the gun at 10-12 officers in what was pretty clearly a suicide by cop instance. I think he was hit by about 12 rounds in 1-2 seconds.

Bottom line is in the real world at least in my experience wild spraying of multiple rounds hardly ever happens.
 
MBOK47;141109996 I personally witnessed with more than 1-2 rounds was a case where the armed suspect was holding a woman hostage and when she escaped and dived away he raised the gun at 10-12 officers in what was pretty clearly a suicide by cop instance. I think he was hit by about 12 rounds in 1-2 seconds. [/QUOTE said:
That is a good example of what I ask when people talk about carrying a gun with a bunch of bullets and several reloads in case they have multiple attackers. How many times can you pull the trigger in 1-2 seconds? You are dead with loaded rounds in your gun and your extra gun and mags. are still fully loaded. Larry
 
Hope for the best; plan for the worst and be prepared to die for what you stand for. What else is there to say?

Protect the weak and those that can not defend themselves against those that seek to prey upon them. :cool:

Excerpts from: "When it takes multiple shots" by MASSAD AYOOB

When it takes multiple shots – Personal Defense World <Read it all here.

In the Chicago area engaged multiple police officers in a hellacious shootout. I was told by a member of the investigative team that the guy was a heroin junkie who had recently “shot up.”

Thus, it’s no surprise that this man took a whole lot of lead before he stopped trying to shoot the officers. He was shot 33 times with 9mm pistol bullets before he went down. I’m told he was also hit with two 12-gauge rifled slugs, the second of which at last ended the fight. The suspect has been hit many times in the head, and virtually all of his body organs have been violated by bullets. However, none of the headshots reached deep brain. A part of this “stopping failure” may have been the choice of ammo, reportedly 100-grain “soft-nose” rather than hollow-point bullets, most of which passed through and through without expanding. But a huge part of it was obviously the drugs the gunman had on board.

Shot Placement

The most important factor in the nebulous topic called “stopping power” is shot placement. In Case Four, a lawsuit alleging excessive force and wrongful death was filed in the wake of a “suicide by cop” in suburban Illinois. After what was later established to be a classic pre-suicidal “departure ritual,” a man staged a disturbance he knew would draw several police officers. When they arrived, he attacked them with a bludgeon. With two officers down and injured, the third opened fire. He was armed with a high-capacity 9mm semi-auto carrying 18 rounds of 115-grain 9mm Silvertip ammo.

Compassionately trying to stop the man without killing him, he fired his first several shots into the man’s legs. But they didn’t stop him and he kept coming. The officer raised his weapon to the man’s chest and kept shooting, though the suspect’s violent swinging brought his arms in line with the blazing service pistol as often as his thorax. When the assailant finally collapsed, the officer’s 17-round magazine was empty and only one cartridge remained in the chamber of his pistol.

The dynamics of the shooting were explained extensively in court. The officer who fired was personally exonerated, and he was the first to determine that “shooting to wound” was the biggest reason his initial gunfire had failed to stop the attacker.

Over in Seconds

In any shooting case, including those cited above, the jury has to be constantly reminded of how fast these things happen in real life. It always takes longer to explain what happened than it took for the incident to happen. This creates the false illusion of it having happened in slow motion, with all sorts of time for you to explore options and perhaps do something less drastic than shooting an attacker several times.

And don’t forget that jurors have spent their lives watching slow-motion shootings on TV and in theaters. In a courtroom, the very few seconds of your incident are dragged out over days, weeks, or sometimes even months of testimony. It’s easy for those who judge you to start seeing the event in slow motion—so it is critical for your defense team to constantly bring the jury back to the unforgiving speed at which your incident took place. They need to understand what little time you had to react.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top