Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it

[Greyman50]

nuf sed……..

 

[BAM-BAM]

Someone once told me that in recent decades; Generals with 2 or more stars are more like Washington politicians than warriors walking in the footsteps of General Patton.

 

[Ugly Hombre]

Far worse than Saigon 75 imo, just awful a debacle- hard to grasp the mind blowing incompetence going on right now in Afghanistan from our side.

The British free press are covering the news on the retreat quite well from on line websites. Much is being cloaked from the public by American media outlets.

RIP to the brave fallen, condolence to their family friends and brothers in arms.

Our troops always deserve much better leadership than what they get...

 

[Old Arkansawyer]

Someone once told me that in recent decades Generals with 2 or more stars today are more Washington politicians than warriors walking in the footsteps of General Patton.

Maybe with the exception of battle lead generals and admirals,
all of these had to kiss up to someone, usually in political office.
A-kissers are not someone I look up to as a great person.
If I have stepped on toes, apologies are given.

 

[STCM(SW)]

"I rather face an army of Lions lead by a sheep then an army of sheep lead by an army of sheep lead by an LION!'
Attributed to Alexander The Great.........

 

[Chukar60]

So we go in and take on the Taliban, aka enemy, spend twenty years there establishing and maintaining some semblance of order. Then we pull out and willingly hand the country over to the enemy and leave all of our war material there including advanced aircraft, small arms and munitions?
Now two powerful adversaries are lining up to get in bed with the enemy without any way for us to intervene.
Then we leave on the enemy’s time line without making sure we have all of our citizens out of the country.
Sure sounds like defeat to me. Cannot think of another word to describe it.

 

[GaryS]

But we don't have any more mean Tweets, so there's that.

So we go in and take on the Taliban, aka enemy, spend twenty years there establishing and maintaining some semblance of order. Then we pull out and willingly hand the country over to the enemy and leave all of our war material there including advanced aircraft, small arms and munitions?
Now two powerful adversaries are lining up to get in bed with the enemy without any way for us to intervene.
Then we leave on the enemy’s time line without making sure we have all of our citizens out of the country.
Sure sounds like defeat to me. Cannot think of another word to describe it.

 

[usmc2427765]

Prayers to you and yours Caj as you face a very nasty storm.

As a Vietnam vet, I sat and watched the chaotic episode at the American Embasy in Saigon in 1975. I had been stateside since August 1970 and could only stare in disbelief at the carnage.

Since then we have politicians that have become experts at the " cut and run" theory and make sure you leave all your weapons and equipment behind for your enemies. How naive and plain stupid can the current administration be ? We even have high ranking active duty military publicly denouncing the action.

I heard the the morons in Washington have given a list of all Americans and Afgan supporters to the Taliban so they can help us locate them and assist us in getting them evacuated from the country !!! Can you say HIT LIST

For the first time in my life I have to admit I am ashamed to be an American, hope this will change with a different administration.

 

[UncleEd]

It may very well be that the U.S.
has learned from this war's history
and will not repeat it again with
deep entanglements in other
countries' cultures and potential
civil wars.

 

[Beemerguy53]

"Nation Building" was doomed to fail when the general populace has no coherent self-recognition of a 'national identity' as an Afghan - rather than as a member of one of many tribes. The concept of a Jeffersonian Democracy springing out of the sand was ultimately western hubris.

It was past time to depart. Arguably we should have left after disposing of Osama Bin Ladin - the reason we went there in the first place.

And leaving was always going involve a degree of chaos.

But the depth of failure and lack of planning & execution in this case is truly, historically staggering - it is not what we did, but *how we did it* that will go down in history as a failure of a magnitude seldom seen in American History.

Doc, thank you, thank you, thank you for this post! You stated what I've been trying to express to people for the past two weeks.

There were no good choices to be made in how to leave Afghanistan, only bad choices and worse choices...and we chose the worst one of all. Yeah, this was never going to end smoothly, but it sure didn't have to end like this either...

 

[Jessie]

I don’t know why our recent wars have been fought. Stopping terrorism is a worthy goal but it seems to warp into something else far too soon.
When half assed measures are applied, half assed solutions can be expected.
Too often our exceptional resources are wasted by small minded people

 

[old tanker]

The dismal failures of the alleged civilian and military "leaders" have brought shame and disgrace on our country. They have betrayed everyone who went in harm's way believing in America's promise. They have made me ashamed of the uniform. I will not forget nor will I forgive.

 

[Jessie]

Do not be ashamed of that uniform. You didn’t disgrace it.
If I still fit in mine I would wear it with pride and anyone who disagreed with that just doesn’t know.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

It may very well be that the U.S.
has learned from this war's history
and will not repeat it again with
deep entanglements in other
countries' cultures and potential
civil wars.

Nope. Not gonna happen. Sorry

 

[mdf9183]

I think they will now be too busy messing up this country to get involved in other countries civil wars.

 

[biku324]

Neither Russia nor China are interested in military involvement in AF. Russian citizens would mutiny; the Chinese only care about business.

 

[Ματθιας]

Let's be honest about our history.

We have been in an arms race or in near constant war since Korea. Our a economy is a permanent war economy. it needs perpetual war.

The hot conflicts we involve ourselves in are in 3rd world counties where we spend trillions conducting operations. Like Vietnam, I'm sure our leaders knew early on the war was/is unwinnable and had no clearly definable way of measuring victory but the operations had/have to continue. I'd argue that these wars aren't meant to be won.

With all the military equipment that was left behind, that all but guarantees an endless war. Was it incompetence or intentional?

Who benefits from all this, ultimately? Not us, the tax payer. With 28.5+ Trillion in debt, there's no treasure in the Treasury. There are no trust funds for entitlements/benefits. We are broke, bankrupt, the greatest debtor nation in history. How long can the spending last before everything crashes?

Our war machine is now moving to the Pacific.

 

[Greyman50]

Mac made the comment about getting in a war in S.E. asia, maybe he meant asia as a whole?

 

[UncleEd]

Mor0lac (?) in Post #57 makes some
excellent points. Don't agree with
all but it points back to the question
of a military/industrial society.

 

[dave1918a2]

And We still have only the news medias take on this failure and We know whose side they are on.