Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it

[biku324]

What was originally a righteous mission, to get the planners of the 9/11 attacks, changed into a giant money funnel to the belt way bandits, who mislead us for nearly twenty years telling us what a great success we were having. The money funneling machine was lubricated with the blood of our young.

Yes, whether deliberately or through indecision and inertia.

 

[Donn]

A pox on all those who preach nation building and benign military intervention. Doesn't matter if there's a D or R behind their name, both sides are equally guilty. Why? Because they think they're smarter than the people they replaced. "They couldn't make it work, but we can. We're better, smarter people." In my day, it was McNamara's Whiz Kids. How many generations of Ivy League whiz kids have there been since? All arrogant and condescending, making all the same mistakes that some poor soul humping a rifle has to pay for.

 

[old tanker]

Tom T Hall sums it up

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUCWFfe2qRo[/ame]

A grey sliver casket rolls off the airplane
The Stars and Stripes are draped over the lid
Inside is the body of our little brother
They say is a soldier, but he's just a kid

We're here to take him to Harlan, Kentucky
Where he will be buried in our family plot
We think of that day when he went in the Army
Expecting a much better job than he got

He'll be a hero in Harlan
Like all the young soldiers before
He's not the first and he won't be the last
To lay down his life in a war

Somewhere in the records he'll just be a number
Another young man lying under a sheet
We're taking him home to rest high on a hillside
And he'll be a hero in Harlan this week

He never made A's when he sat in the classroom
Never got dates with the prettiest girls
When he got turned down for a job in the coalmine
I guess that's what led him to go save the world

He'll be a hero in Harlan
Like all the young soldiers before
He's not the first and he won't be the last
To lay down his life in a war

The world is a big place and maybe needs saving
But what can a country boy do with a gun
He used to win teddy bears down at the fairgrounds
When living was easy and shooting was fun

They fold up the stars and stripes for his mother
And gently they trade the flag for her son
A harder exchange never took place in Harlan
But it's not the first time it's ever been done

He'll be a hero in Harlan
Like all the young soldiers before
He's not the first and he won't be the last
To lay down his life in a war

And he'll be a hero in Harlan

 

[kamloops67]

I just have to wonder why we seem to ALMOST reach the finish line, but never quite finish, any of these conflicts. The last war we can say with no uncertainty that "WE WON", was WW2.

All by yourselves huh ?

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Historical parallels are over-used, and often misinterpreted.

South Vietnam fell to an invading army, which we could have stopped militarily if the political will had been there and the American people had actually supported that; neither was the case. The ARVN, at least in significant parts, fought until the end, if finally ineffectively. But they held for almost two years without US ground troops, giving Nixon and Kissinger their “decent interval” before it was over.

Afghanistan, despite many Afghans joining our efforts, just fell apart. “Nuking Hanoi” was never an option; there was no Hanoi. Most of the Afghan security forces, which outnumbered the Taliban 6 to 1 or so in nominal strength and were much better equipped, seem to have made deals of surrender or just gone home. There was no Battle of Kabul.

So all the tough talk is cheap, but also detached from practical reality. The deal with the Taliban about the evacuation seems to have largely held, to the displeasure of the Islamist Jihadis, as the bombing shows. Anyone who thinks some kind of heroic fighting withdrawal would have been preferable should study the history of the British retreat from Kabul in 1842.

Ordered this on Kindle and am about 1/3 of the way through. Excellent book!!!

 

[tripledipper]

Just a passing thought, the traitorous Pakistan who fooled Bush 43 continues to be the bad guy behind the scenes according to the CIA.. The other "friend" of our elected leaders over the years, the Saudi's, are still following the radical teachings of Wahhabism. We still have difficulty recognizing wolves in sheep's clothing and Trojan horses.

 

[Beemerguy53]

All by yourselves huh ?

Good point, my Canadian friend, but with all due respect...

Absent the entry of the United States into World War II, there is no way -- none -- that Britain and the Soviet Union could have defeated the Axis powers militarily. The best possible outcome would have been a negotiated cessation of hostilities, and a peace treaty that would have left Germany and Japan in control of the territories they'd already conquered. That scenario sends chills up my spine just thinking about it...

All of the Allies fought nobly and courageously to save the world from fascist tyranny. The heroism of the British, and of our Canadian neighbors, was positively inspirational, and yes, your countrymen fought for more than two years longer than we did.

But in the end, it was the United States' entry into the war that turned the tide, and ensured the unconditional surrender of the Axis.

 

[biku324]

Just a passing thought, the traitorous Pakistan who fooled Bush 43 continues to be the bad guy behind the scenes according to the CIA.. The other "friend" of our elected leaders over the years, the Saudi's, are still following the radical teachings of Wahhabism. We still have difficulty recognizing wolves in sheep's clothing and Trojan horses.

The mistake a lot of folks make is in believing Pakistanis are uniformly one thing or another. We get a LOT of help from the Pakistanis in the region, but they can't be seen by their neighbors as subservient to the US.

Why do you suppose no Muslim theocracy has simply purchased one of Pakistan's 165 nukes nor their nuke missile delivery systems (Shaheen III, range 1708 miles)?