We have a .380 for house duty. Curious to know if anyone switches to round or flat nose ball ammo to account for heavier clothing in colder climates (regardless of caliber).
Anyone switch to ball ammo during winter?
- Thread starter robrossk
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FMJ is all I ever carry in my .45...My .38's are fed wadcutters year round...
...Ben
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Some of the new high tech "plastic plug in the nose" defensive/service factory loaded rounds do well to not plug up with denim and heavy winter clothing. It's on the user to do some research to find what will work for them in their particular caliber/barrel length.
Ball is the only way to go year around for the .380. And the .45 and mostly the 9mm also in my opinion. Reliability, shot placement, penetration.
My .380's and 9's are on a strict ball only diet.
THE PILGRIM
Member
I have 2- 20 round boxes of 380 Hollow Points.
They cost so much that I'm saving them just for folks on the FBI Most Wanted List.
Everybody else gets Ball.
They cost so much that I'm saving them just for folks on the FBI Most Wanted List.
Everybody else gets Ball.
sipowicz
Member
Ok….so here's one advantage to living in California. I don't have to switch out my ammo. Wish there were more.
Nope. That said, I've never been a .380 guy but if I was I'd carry Fiocchi ball ammo year round as it tends to be slightly hotter than other brands in my (limited) experience.
FMJ is all I ever carry in my .45...My .38's are fed wadcutters year round...
AMEN MY BROVVA...........me too.
p.s. my home primary is a 12ga. pump
J.
No
Federal HST in my .357sig year around
Winchester silvertips in my 10mm year around
Federal HST in my .357sig year around
Winchester silvertips in my 10mm year around
I carry ball all the time. .45 ACP gets fed standard 230 gr. hardball, the 9mm gets 147 gr fmj truncated cone.
I see this all the time - the idea that in the .380 ACP you should be using ball ammo due to concerns about inadequate penetration.
Close on the heels of that I also usually see comments about concerns that heavy clothing will cause the hollow point to plug and fail to expand, and thus FMJ is a better choice.
And finally I see comments that bullets with polymer tips are a better choice as they won't plug and will expand.
Those three thoughts are not all that consistent with each other or all that logical.
——
Here's my take on it based on my own testing in ballistic gel.
First, the Hornady 90 gr XTP (the XTP, not the polymer tipped FTX) is never a bad choice for a self defense bullet in a .380 ACP, provided it feeds reliably.
Provided you can get at least 975 or so fps muzzle velocity it will reliably expand in bare 10% ballistic gelatin and provide about 12-13" of penetration.
This was shot in a 2.75" Kimber Micro. Velocities for these two shots were right around 990 FPS.
On the left are three 90 gr XTPs fired from a Kimber Micro .380 ACP and on the right are three 115 gr XTPs fired from a Kimber Micro 9 9mm Luger.
If it fails to expand in heavy clothing so what? It will act like an FMJ. In other words FMJs will fail to expand 100% of the time, while the 90 gr XTP at 950 tp 1000 FPS will expand 100% of the time in bare gel and about 60% of the time in a 4 layer denim test with a few more inches of penetration. At 1000-1050 FPS performance in bare gel is the same and heavy denim expansion increases to near 100%.
Second, the more concerning failure with a .380 ACP hollow point is under penetration, where it expands just fine but on.y achieves 8-10" of penetration.
A lot of people suggest polymer tipped bullets like the Hornady 90 gr FTX. I don't have any photos handy with .380 test results but I do have some 9mm FTX results in a CZ75 Compact PCR.
Velocities were not excessively high at around 1050 FPS but performance was underwhelming.
In short, those polymer tipped bullets can give good penetration and expansion, but they are almost always suited to very short barrels where the lower velocities allows for slower expansion and better penetration.
Third, hollow points are preferable in a self defense round not as much for the expansion but rather for the limited penetration to keep it under 18". That maximum ballistic gel penetration figure is associated with ensuring the bullet doesn't exit the intended target and hit an innocent bystander. Hitting a bystander is bad for an officer in an officer involved shoot, but they have some degree of immunity as well as department funded lawyers and liability insurance backing them up.
As an armed citizen, you don't, so think twice about your priorities when deciding an FMJ round makes sense. Even in .380 ACP, I almost never see less than 22" of penetration in bare or 4 denim gel tests.
The only time I'd use an FMJ in a .380 ACP would be if the 90 gr XTP would not feed reliably.
Close on the heels of that I also usually see comments about concerns that heavy clothing will cause the hollow point to plug and fail to expand, and thus FMJ is a better choice.
And finally I see comments that bullets with polymer tips are a better choice as they won't plug and will expand.
Those three thoughts are not all that consistent with each other or all that logical.
——
Here's my take on it based on my own testing in ballistic gel.
First, the Hornady 90 gr XTP (the XTP, not the polymer tipped FTX) is never a bad choice for a self defense bullet in a .380 ACP, provided it feeds reliably.
Provided you can get at least 975 or so fps muzzle velocity it will reliably expand in bare 10% ballistic gelatin and provide about 12-13" of penetration.
This was shot in a 2.75" Kimber Micro. Velocities for these two shots were right around 990 FPS.
On the left are three 90 gr XTPs fired from a Kimber Micro .380 ACP and on the right are three 115 gr XTPs fired from a Kimber Micro 9 9mm Luger.
If it fails to expand in heavy clothing so what? It will act like an FMJ. In other words FMJs will fail to expand 100% of the time, while the 90 gr XTP at 950 tp 1000 FPS will expand 100% of the time in bare gel and about 60% of the time in a 4 layer denim test with a few more inches of penetration. At 1000-1050 FPS performance in bare gel is the same and heavy denim expansion increases to near 100%.
Second, the more concerning failure with a .380 ACP hollow point is under penetration, where it expands just fine but on.y achieves 8-10" of penetration.
A lot of people suggest polymer tipped bullets like the Hornady 90 gr FTX. I don't have any photos handy with .380 test results but I do have some 9mm FTX results in a CZ75 Compact PCR.
Velocities were not excessively high at around 1050 FPS but performance was underwhelming.
In short, those polymer tipped bullets can give good penetration and expansion, but they are almost always suited to very short barrels where the lower velocities allows for slower expansion and better penetration.
Third, hollow points are preferable in a self defense round not as much for the expansion but rather for the limited penetration to keep it under 18". That maximum ballistic gel penetration figure is associated with ensuring the bullet doesn't exit the intended target and hit an innocent bystander. Hitting a bystander is bad for an officer in an officer involved shoot, but they have some degree of immunity as well as department funded lawyers and liability insurance backing them up.
As an armed citizen, you don't, so think twice about your priorities when deciding an FMJ round makes sense. Even in .380 ACP, I almost never see less than 22" of penetration in bare or 4 denim gel tests.
The only time I'd use an FMJ in a .380 ACP would be if the 90 gr XTP would not feed reliably.
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sigp220.45
US Veteran
I don't switch ammo with the seasons. I never did as a badge toter, no need to start now.
I'm in the all-ball camp for my .380s. All I expect from them is a .355 hole going in and a .355 hole coming out. Same with my .32s, just with a smaller hole.
I'm not concerned with a nearly-spent ball round hitting someone after a shoot-thru. I'm more likely to hit them with a round that misses entirely.
Of course, no one here would ever miss.
I'm in the all-ball camp for my .380s. All I expect from them is a .355 hole going in and a .355 hole coming out. Same with my .32s, just with a smaller hole.
I'm not concerned with a nearly-spent ball round hitting someone after a shoot-thru. I'm more likely to hit them with a round that misses entirely.
Of course, no one here would ever miss.
With the accounts I have read about over penetration causing deaths to officers from their fellow officers. Or the woman and child she was carrying being killed after the bullet went through a suspect . I stick to my hollow points.
I carry HPs in all my guns once I know that they work reliably. With revolvers that is not a concern, obviously, and I carry those more often than pistols but, still, I still to HPs all of the time.
Since I don't presently carry anything smaller than a .38 or 9mm I am unsure what I'd do with a .380. If I ever carry my Seecamp I'll stick to .32 ACP Silvertips but I have never carried it.
Since I don't presently carry anything smaller than a .38 or 9mm I am unsure what I'd do with a .380. If I ever carry my Seecamp I'll stick to .32 ACP Silvertips but I have never carried it.
sousana
Member
Guard Dog 76gr fragmentation in 45acp
Guard Dog 96gr fragmentation in 9mm
Spare mag number one for 45acp is Hi velocity JHP's
Spare mag number two for 45acp is IMI 230gr FMJ-FP
Spare mag number one & two for 9mm is 154gr FMJ
Guard Dog 96gr fragmentation in 9mm
Spare mag number one for 45acp is Hi velocity JHP's
Spare mag number two for 45acp is IMI 230gr FMJ-FP
Spare mag number one & two for 9mm is 154gr FMJ
Echo40
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No, because worst case scenario a clogged JHP functions as a FMJ anyway, so there's no practical reason to carry FMJ over JHP in Winter.
The Urban Legend that Winter Clothing stops small caliber rounds is just that, an Urban Legend with absolutely no truth behind it whatsoever. There are no shortage of videos on YouTube which have tested it out and not even a .22 Short can be stopped by a Winter Coat, let alone a .380 ACP.
The Urban Legend that Winter Clothing stops small caliber rounds is just that, an Urban Legend with absolutely no truth behind it whatsoever. There are no shortage of videos on YouTube which have tested it out and not even a .22 Short can be stopped by a Winter Coat, let alone a .380 ACP.
sipowicz
Member
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