Anyone switch to ball ammo during winter?

I do make adjustments that are seasonal.
.380 shorts and tee shirt weather....always HP
9 HP , fall and winter....Central Oh get can get purty darn nippy, Jan & Feb is double Carhartt weather...
 
No, because worst case scenario a clogged JHP functions as a FMJ anyway, so there's no practical reason to carry FMJ over JHP in Winter.

The Urban Legend that Winter Clothing stops small caliber rounds is just that, an Urban Legend with absolutely no truth behind it whatsoever. There are no shortage of videos on YouTube which have tested it out and not even a .22 Short can be stopped by a Winter Coat, let alone a .380 ACP.

Your right, but many are eaten up with the legend. However, I couldn't imagine using YouTube and YouTube experts to add credence to anything.
 
Your right, but many are eaten up with the legend. However, I couldn't imagine using YouTube and YouTube experts to add credence to anything.

It's not about the YouTubers, it's about the fact that people have tested it on camera, shooting Winter Coats and other such heavy clothing with pistols and not even the diminutive .22 Short fired from a Beretta Jetfire was stopped by a wadded up Winter Coat.

Honestly, if the absolute weakest cartridges go straight through a bunched up Winter Coat on camera, then that pretty well definitively debunks the already dubious myth that Winter Clothing is Bulletproof.
 
No, because worst case scenario a clogged JHP functions as a FMJ anyway, so there's no practical reason to carry FMJ over JHP in Winter.

The Urban Legend that Winter Clothing stops small caliber rounds is just that, an Urban Legend with absolutely no truth behind it whatsoever. There are no shortage of videos on YouTube which have tested it out and not even a .22 Short can be stopped by a Winter Coat, let alone a .380 ACP.

As far as I can tell that myth goes back to at least the Korean War where GIs complained the .30 M1 carbine ball round would not penetrate the ice encrusted quilted cotton padded winter coats worn by Chinese soldiers.

It was a myth then, but one probably based on the fact that the fairly small Chinese troops were comparatively small targets inside their wool under clothing and puffy padded cotton winter coats. Consequently GIs would claim - somewhat correctly - that they hit the Chicom troops, without recognizing they just hit the puffy coat around the edges of the soldier inside. They would then incorrectly assume that they'd hit the soldier but the round failed to penetrate.

There was also the reality that being outnumbered 20, 30 or 40 to
1 in a human wave assault inevitably meant that even the significant rate of fire and magazine capacity of an M2 carbine was often not adequate.

In ballistic gel, a .30 carbine 110 grain ball round will penetrate 26+ inches, while most 110 gr soft point rounds will penetrate 15-21" depending how soft the alloy used in the bullet. The specialty rounds like the Hornady FTX will penetrate around 18-20".

That's pretty decent performance and on par with a .357 Magnum 125 gr hollow point or soft point fired from a carbine - and no one complains about the .357 Magnum's performance on winter clothing.

Lucky Gunner did some testing with layers of 5/8" plywood and the .30 M1 ball round penetrated 11-12 layers compared to 5 for the .45 ACP and 7 or 8 for the 5.56x45. Again no one seems to complain about penetration of the .45 ACP ball or 5.56 ball rounds on winter clothing.
 
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I subscribe to Active Self Protection that posts 2-3 videos per week of criminal encounters. There is good analysis and commentary.

In the hundreds of videos I've watched, I don't ever recall seeing a bad guy dressed in a heavy winter coat. It restricts movement and agility, two characteristics BGs like to have.

IF one had to shoot a heavily dressed assailant at close range, neck/head/pelvis shots could be a viable option.

I just don't see winter clothing as being the dominant factor in choosing ammo to protect myself, even in a .380.

I also don't buy the over-penetration argument. Any pistol bullet, especially a .380, that is a good hit will not have enough exit energy to do a lot of damage down range.

While at Barnes Bullets a decade ago we fired various pistol rounds through 12" of gel with a chrono placed behind it. No bullet, even fmj, had even half its muzzle velocity remaining. Those HPs that exited did so at <300 fps as I recall.

If you are missing and sending pills down range at full velocity, well, that's different.

The likelihood one will encounter a BG any time any where whose clothing might so alter the effectiveness of carry ammo as to render it ineffective means:

1. You carry the wrong gun and/or
2. Your tactics need improvement

Starting from behind the curve of an attack usually means luck is far less of a factor than skill. When you choose to carry a small/relatively low round count/low velocity/light bullet .380, you had best be very skilled, no matter what ammo you choose.
 
when the weather turns cold i put my .380 away and begin packing a 9mm loaded with JHP....mostly Federal HST.
 
…/

/….Starting from behind the curve of an attack usually means luck is far less of a factor than skill. When you choose to carry a small/relatively low round count/low velocity/light bullet .380, you had best be very skilled, no matter what ammo you choose.

In general, I agree, but you need to shorten this to "you best be very skilled no matter what ammo you choose" - and not just for the .380 but any handgun round. They are all inadequate when it comes to stopping an assailant.

I agree with you that a miss is just as or even more likely to strike an innocent bystander than a round that passed through an assistant. Yet police departments still use hollow points to further reduce the potential of a bystander to ship other by a pass through round.

As I recall roughly 400 FPS was the threshold below with a bullet would generally fail to inflict a serious injury to a bystander (eyeballs and other soft spots excepted). Well designed hollow points, if they pass through at all, are usually going to be under that threshold, while hollow points, particularly in rounds 9mm and above, are likely to be over it.

In the same vein, carrying a high capacity magazine won't offset a skills deficiency - as evidenced by officer involved shoots almost every day where the hit percentages in some departments are as low as 20% on average. Mashing the trigger more works for the officers involved given limited immunity, sovereign immunity, department funded insurance and a department funded attorney.

That strategy fails miserably for an armed citizen who will be held fully accountable for the death, injury and damage caused by each and every round he or she fires.
 
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Ok….so here's one advantage to living in California. I don't have to switch out my ammo. Wish there were more.

You forgot since we can't order ammo online our ammo choices are limited. And the hand gun roster saves us money because we can't get any of the new semi auto developed lately .
 
Guard Dog 76gr fragmentation in 45acp
Guard Dog 96gr fragmentation in 9mm

Spare mag number one for 45acp is Hi velocity JHP's
Spare mag number two for 45acp is IMI 230gr FMJ-FP

Spare mag number one & two for 9mm is 154gr FMJ

I'm unfamiliar with Guard Dog. But, I find it interesting that 45 is lighter than 9mm... ...typo?

I personally do proven hollowpoints. Gold dots, Winchester SXT's, Critical Duty, etc... ...Year round.

ETA: .38/9mm is smallest I do for personal defense of self and family.
Issued Duty is Gold dot .40 180 grain.
 
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I'm a revolver guy, and use either hollow points, or wadcutters exclusively. I don't really care if it goes through your coat or not, there's gonna be a whole lot of hurt when it hits you. Pretty darn sure you're going to re-think what you're doing. And I'd much rather have it not go through you, it's all yours buddy, you asked for it, you keep it.
 
I run fairly hot loaded Hornady XTP rounds in all my carry guns year round. I will also be loading some hot 158gr jsp 'FBI' loads for my Model 60.
 
OP, whatever you choose to shoot ball or JHP make sure you run a couple 100 rounds through it to make sure your gun doesn't have any issues with your ammo of choice. Autoloaders inherently will feed ball ammo better than JHP's. your milage may vary. makes no difference in a revolver.

I used to switch out my JHP to ball ammo in the winter but, the last few years it's just ball ammo in my carry gun. (you may have to punch through something) Bad guys move and take up cover too!!!!!

I do subscribe to the theory that winter clothing will slow down a JHP and not have enough penetration. If you think about it; heavy coat, hoody, one or two T shirts will slow down a bullet before it ever gets to skin.
 

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