ATF admits to having 1 Billion gun records

[Grayfox]

Admin Edit:
This topic does not exactly fit the guidelines for posting here in that it is not a proposal we can take action against in the usual manner when a bill is proposed.
I'm leaving it up because it is such a threat to 2A rights, as in:

Ideally, we should see nothing here that does not pertain directly to threats to or expansion of 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.

You can contact your senators and congressmen and demand action against this de facto registry.



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original post:

We've know or at least suspected this for years. ATF has finally admitted it.

ATF has 1 Billion gun records

 

[robertrwalsh]

Aren't they SUPPOSED to have records of guns (at least handguns) sold thru dealers for the last 90 years or so?

 

[sigp220.45]

When an FFL closes, all those paper 4473s go to the ATF. Its been this way since FFLs existed.

 

[Sistema1927]

Aren't they SUPPOSED to have records of guns (at least handguns) sold thru dealers for the last 90 years or so?

No.

They would have no records prior to 1968 (GCA 68) for handguns. They are not supposed to compile a registry of any sort. The only records they should have are the 4473's of dealers that have gone out of business. With NICS checks, those records re supposed to be destroyed within a certain number of hours.

What they have been doing is compiling a back door registry of gun purchasers, something that Congress has not allowed. The swamp is deep and dangerous.

 

[ACORN]

The bad part is that’s even though it’s against the law who is going to stop them?

 

[Beemer-mark]

The bad part is that’s even though it’s against the law who is going to stop them?

Sort of makes me want to re-apply for my C&R license. When I let it expire last year I discovered I didn't need to send my log book to the FFL, so I destroyed it.

 

[biku324]

Aren't they SUPPOSED to have records of guns (at least handguns) sold thru dealers for the last 90 years or so?

I thought it was since 1968. I sent in my FFL records to Chicago in '79 and assume they are still there in the box I mailed.

I expect Gubroker has millions of records and all are instantly available.

 

[ACORN]

I’m sure all the 4473s that have been returned to the ATF have been digitized to “save space”. No law against that, I suppose.
You really don’t think they’d waste all that info, do you?

 

[biku324]

The article said 6% were digitized, I think.

Sure glad I don't have to scan a billion 2- and 3-page documents!

 

[Grayfox]

The article says 94% have been digitized.

 

[cmansguns]

What is anyone worried about...it is only 1 collector!

Only a billion?

That's just RKMesa's engraved collection, so nothing to worry about here folks.

 

[biku324]

The article says 94% have been digitized.

You're right - I misremembered. Lexdysia a problem be can.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

When an FFL closes, all those paper 4473s go to the ATF. Its been this way since FFLs existed.

All 4473's are done electronically now. Fill out and hit the complete button and ZOOM to the atf.

 

[waffles]

I'm very much not on the conspiratorial end of the gun community spectrum, c'mon, is anyone actually surprised? I've always operated under the assumption that any info I'm writing on the form or submitting via state or federal background checks will be held and made accessible, whether its supposed to be or not.

 

[moosedog]

No not all 4473's are done online. The 4473e form is an option, not a mandate.

 

[sigp220.45]

Like my friend from NM, I mailed my paper 4473s to the ATF when my dalliance with being an FFL ended.

I should do a Freedom of Information Act request for all the guns I’ve had over the years. I bet its more than I think.

 

[Recusant]

Knowing who bought what back in the day is one thing; being able to find where those guns are today is something else. Enter the Universal Background Check.

 

[brucev]

ATF has whatever records it decides to hold, gained by whatever means it decided to use. It has no accountability to anyone. With the advent of electronic records, nothing is going to stop the ATF from gaining even more access to records of anyone and everyone who legally buys a firearm. Of course none of this applies to anyone who buys or obtains a firearm by illegal means. But, the ATF is on the job keeping close watch on the potential threat posed by legal purchasers of legal firearms. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[Greyman50]

Hummmmm, there were Many guns sold “ privately” since 68. Private sales are Not Illegal in “ Free States”.

 

[moralem]

I buy strictly on the secondary market…..I live in free Texas.