The Russians have gone in

[LVSteve]

and are staying in.

I had that feeling as I typed the original post.

 

[Nevada Ed]

My question is..........

will they ever get jets to keep their "Air space" free of Russian planes?

Fighting land and sea forces only, would be a lot easier to handle without air support.

 

[bigwheelzip]

... perhaps overly
complicated and certainly too
heavy for road and field conditions
that are not ideal.

I'd not underestimate the capabilities of Ukraine. The Russian flagship cruiser Moskova, with three separate anti-missile defense systems, was sunk by an outdated, big, heavy, and complicated missile launcher.
That artillery sits on the venerable Leopard tank chassis, and should be put to good use there, I hope soon and with a good supply of that advanced armor-hunting ammo.



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[UncleEd]

Bigwheelzip,

I was not referring to the
ability of the Ukrainians
in handling complex weapons.
They certainly can.

But battle conditions are
always a challenge to any
machine, especially a
complex one.

Nevada Ed,

The Ukraine air force does
have fighter jets though not
as many as it would like.
I believe just this week word
got out more jets and parts
were being "slipped" across
the border from the West.

And don't discount the
Switchblade systems or the
new Phoenix Ghost.

 

[Xfuzz]

Would like to say thanks to all the knowledgeable
members that have contributed to the thread.

I have enjoyed it.....

 

[LVSteve]

My question is..........

will they ever get jets to keep their "Air space" free of Russian planes?

Fighting land and sea forces only, would be a lot easier to handle without air support.

Russian air support hasn't been all that evident. Russia and Ukraine have much the same SAM equipment, and neither wants to go up against what the other guy has. Both have the S-300, the Russians have the S-400, and both have the highly mobile SA-11 and SA-15 that are not to be trifled with, so long as you don't run out of diesel. Even the old SA-8 can ruin your day if you get careless.

 

[ddixie884]

It would have been nice if the West had given up a little more assistance a little earlier. I guess they didn't have any faith the Ukrainians would survive the first onslaught. I think Putin was intent on having all of the government heads murdered and installing a bunch of puppets.

 

[Rudi]

We can not discuss some of the most basic issues effecting this war.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Canada is sending towed Howitzers, and France is sending their self-propelled Caesar artillery system along with ammo and anti-tank missiles.
Edit: Britain is also sending self-propelled Howitzers and shells.

Canada sends four pieces of field artillery to Ukraine as country braces for renewed Russian attack | CBC News

France sending heavy artillery


United Kingdom to provide AS90 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine | Defense News April 2022 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2022 | Archive News year

 

[Greyman50]

Would love to be " a fly on the wall" in some rooms at the Pentagon…

 

[UncleEd]

Would love to be " a fly on the wall" in some rooms at the Pentagon…

I think the discussions among and
between NATO members is what
materiel the Ukraines really need
and not what Zelensky wants.

The modern Ukrainian army was
basically borne of Western advice
and training. And while Zelensky
believes he needs certain weapons,
the more experienced generals within
NATO know what is really likely to
work.

This I believe can be seen in the
decision to send the USAF's new
Phoenix Ghost to the battlefront.

Of course the Pentagon would like
to see how really effective the
USAF weapon is in actual battlefield
conditions and not just traning
exercies in the U.S.

 

[Greyman50]

Ergo, actual combat test without risks, lol…

 

[bigwheelzip]

The British are sending an armored anti-aircraft system called Stormer, equipped with Starstreak missiles.



UK: Stormer Anti-Aircraft Missile Trucks Head to Ukraine, Reports Say


Said to be video on Twitter of handheld Starstreak downing a Russian helicopter.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1509875064136679425


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[UncleEd]

Ergo, actual combat test without risks, lol…

Since 2014 and now more
specifically since Russia's
invasion this year, the
Ukrainian situation has
always been a proxy war
for NATO.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Since 2014 and now more

specifically since Russia's

invasion this year, the

Ukrainian situation has

always been a proxy war

for NATO.

If we were looking for a proxy war, we wouldn't have abandoned our Syrian bases and Kurdish allies to the Russians in 2019.

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[ladder13]

The Pentagon announced Thursday that it will deliver over 120 "Phoenix Ghost" drones specifically designed by the U.S. Air Force for Ukrainian "needs" as the war with Russia ramps up. 
U.S. defense officials have warned that Russia's invasion in the eastern Luhansk and Donetsk regions will be a more brutal fight as Moscow "shapes" its new strategy in the Donbas region to address specific terrain challenges

A senior U.S. defense official told reporters that the latest package was strategically put together based on what Ukrainian officials have expressed a direct need for.
"It's based on talking to the Ukrainians about what they need," the official said. "It's very much tied to the fight that they're in, in the Donbas and what that region, from a terrain perspective, portends for the use of force."


"The fighting in the Donbas is going to be heavily reliant on artillery," the senior U.S. defense official said. "Artillery systems and artillery rounds are what the Ukrainians say they need and we think they're saying it with good reason. It's no surprise that the Russians are also relying on artillery and bringing in artillery enablers before they started to bring in ground forces"

 

[Rudi]

I doubt those Russian gunship pilot's combat pay is high enough.

 

[bigwheelzip]

It's good to see how strongly the countrys that used to be under the Soviet yoke are supporting their brethren trying to avoid it.
The Czech government is sending main battle tanks, MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket Systems), howitzers, and infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine among military shipments that have reached hundreds of millions of dollars.
These systems have the added advantage of being of the type currently in Ukraine's inventory and requiring no additional training.

Czech Republic started delivery of 2S1 122mm self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine

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[biku324]

I doubt those Russian gunship pilot's combat pay is high enough.

The really good news is Putin can't quickly replace them. Or T-14 vtanks (not seen in combat as there aren't many) or Su57 fighters (they will lose sales if one of this handful of new fighters gets shot down).

Added: It looks like our sanctions are getting results.

"A Russian state news agency said on Monday that the Russian Ambassador to the U.S. was looking to stabilize relations with the U.S.

Anatoly Antonov said he wanted Russian-American relations to not only "stabilize" but to "develop," according to a translated version of a report from the Russian state news agency, RIA.There is potential for this," Antonov reportedly said on Russian television.

"Many very problems cannot be solved together without the participation of Russia and the United States," he added, citing issues ranging from COVID-19 to weapons of mass destruction. "

Russian ambassador says Kremlin wants to 'stabilize' relations with US | The Hill

 

[UncleEd]

Analysts believe, based on two recent
video clips, that Putin is ailing.

First clip showed him with one of his
ministers at a Kremlin meeting. The
second clip he is at Orthodox Easter
Sunday mass yesterday.

If not ailing, maybe he just isn't
getting enough sleep from worry.