Concealed legality details

[pantannojack]

In recently attending a CWL class in Idaho, the instructor suggested that when carrying in pocket, IWB, shoulder, or other and it becomes visible accidently, or an outer garment "prints" the weapon, I could be charged with BRANDISHING in Washington or Idaho State. Is this true? That sounds like denial of right to me. What do the lawyers say?

 

[Telecaster]

You'd have to read Idaho law to know for sure, he should have provided you a copy of the statues.

In Florida, that wouldn't be illegal. Accidental brief exposure is legal, and brandishing usually involves you holding the gun in your hands. Printing isn't illegal here. YMMV.

 

[Heinz]

I am not in Idaho and do not know the law there. In South Carolina, prior to open carry, "Brandishing" required the intent to display the firearm. You could "brandish" it in a holster if you intentionally pulled back you kjacket and flashed it. If the wind blows your jacket open, it is not intentional brandishing.

 

[Lightfoot4]

... and it becomes visible accidently, or an outer garment "prints" the weapon, I could be charged with BRANDISHING in Washington or Idaho State.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've NEVER seen brandishing applied to accidental exposure. Brandishing has to have intent.

... In South Carolina ... If the wind blows your jacket open, it is not intentional brandishing.

A friend of mine, from North Carolina, was riding a bicycle in the Myrtle Beach area when the wind blew his shirt up, exposing his otherwise concealed firearm. A cop saw it and he was arrested for open carry. Took some money and lawyering to get the charges dismissed. But he didn't get charged with brandishing.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Sounds like you need legal advice from an attorney in the states that concern your question.

 

[Eric300]

BRANDISH(ING)

To wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.
"a man leaped out brandishing a knife"

I would have to disagree with your instructor. Accidental/Unintentional exposure is not 'Brandishing'.

 

[Muss Muggins]

In recently attending a CWL class in Idaho, the instructor suggested that when carrying in pocket, IWB, shoulder, or other and it becomes visible accidently, or an outer garment "prints" the weapon, I could be charged with BRANDISHING in Washington or Idaho State. Is this true? That sounds like denial of right to me. What do the lawyers say?

Since open carry appears to be legal without a permit in both Idaho and Washington state (admitted five minute interweb search), I call that which makes the grass green and fragrant . . .

 

[RetCapt]

This is in response to Lowa's post, as well as a general response on the topic.

In Calif, pursuant to PC 417 et seq, the circumstances described by OP would not be a crime. The various states may differ, and I don't know the law in ID.

Lowa's response regarding LE, at least in Calif, which he did not choose to exclude, is not correct. That may be due to good faith ignorance or as a part of his narrative as indicated in his last sentence. I think in his first sentence he is trying to state the LEOs do not understand laws, but the sentence is so poorly worded that even that is not completely clear.

I am not an attorney. But I have taken law classes, including at the FBI National Academy. For over 30 years I taught law in LE academies (recruit and in-service) and community colleges. Students/recruits have to pass a state test in each block to survive to graduate. Fail a test and there is one make up. Fail that and you go home. I have been on POST committees that review the legal curriculum and the tests. These tests are not easy. These tests and academy policies (which are mandated by Ca POST) apply to all peace officers throughout the state, including 'back woods' cops, who do indeed care, and for very good reason. Iowa's condescending opinion towards LEOs is factually inaccurate and obviously biased.

The comment on "illegitimate government" is irrelevant and political. LE agencies, and their LEOs work for the government the voters elected. That government may be objectionable to many of us in many of their actions but they are the result of voter preference. They can be voted out, or in some cases recalled, by the voters. But unless or until that happens they are legitimate. Any other alternative would be anarchy.

Having stated my thoughts I now look to Iowa to suggest how to bring all LEOs up to an academic level acceptable to him and how to move our government from illegitimacy to legitimacy. I also look for what actions he personally intends to take to attain these objectives beyond sending out clumsily worded cheap shots.

 

[BB57]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've NEVER seen brandishing applied to accidental exposure. Brandishing has to have intent.



A friend of mine, from North Carolina, was riding a bicycle in the Myrtle Beach area when the wind blew his shirt up, exposing his otherwise concealed firearm. A cop saw it and he was arrested for open carry. Took some money and lawyering to get the charges dismissed. But he didn't get charged with brandishing.

When did this happen? NC is an open carry without a permit state and has been for years.

Now…there are prohibited areas like paid events and parades but just riding your bike isn’t one of them.

I suspect your friend is greatly exaggerating or more likely, there is more to the story, such as carrying a handgun under the influence of alcohol.

 

[BB57]

I’ve heard variations on the “brandishing a firearm” hysteria for the entire 36 years I’ve carried a concealed handgun.

I’ve never heard of anyone ever getting arrested for an accidental exposure.

Unfortunately it goes hyperbolic with people claiming that “printing” will get you arrested for “brandishing”. Again, I’ve never heard a credible account of that happening.

The fact is unless it’s distinctly printing through skin tight spandex, no one is going to notice, unless you’re doing stupid like repeatedly pawing at your clothing, pull in your shirt down etc.

People new to concealed carry are easy to spot in most parking lots. They get out of their truck, they look down and adjust their shirt and then check and adjust 2-3 more times on their way to the store. Dudes who have been doing it 20 years no longer even think about the gun being there.

 

[Autonomous]

You need to read and comprehend the laws pertaining to you.
Even when 100% legal, overzealous cops or politics can still ruin your life.

A guy I know was violently assaulted by cops when his shirt blew up his back, briefly exposing his weapon, when riding a bicycle. He has a CWP and open carry is legal here. It didn't matter.

 

[Muss Muggins]

A guy I know was violently assaulted by cops when his shirt blew up his back, briefly exposing his weapon, when riding a bicycle. He has a CWP and open carry is legal here. It didn't matter.

If a story sounds way too weird to be true, it’s probably not. There’s always more to the story . . .

 

[Muss Muggins]

Police do not know it understand laws. They don't have law degrees. If their boss tells them that that is brandishing, they will arrest you and charge you. If they are back woods cops, they won't care one way or another. . .

Your misunderstanding of police training and education regarding the law is frightening. . .

 

[CH4]

Police do not know it understand laws. They don't have law degrees. If their boss tells them that that is brandishing, they will arrest you and charge you. If they are back woods cops, they won't care one way or another.

No gun law is actually legal. It really comes down to how that particular illegitimate government feels.

?????????????????????????????????

I am not a lawyer, but I am certain that brandishing, burglary and sniffing glue are illegal in all states.

I don't know about Idaho, but I highly doubt it. By that instructor's definition, everyone who OCs is brandishing. In CA and probably most other jurisdictions, brandishing means to "draw or exhibit the weapon in a threatening manner, or to use it in a fight, other than in self-defense." 417 CPC.

 

[Catwrangler]

When did this happen? NC is an open carry without a permit state and has been for years.

Now…there are prohibited areas like paid events and parades but just riding your bike isn’t one of them.

I suspect your friend is greatly exaggerating or more likely, there is more to the story, such as carrying a handgun under the influence of alcohol.

Um, NC. has attacked S.C. and annexed N. Myrtle Beach and Myrtle Beach? How far inland does this land seize go? Are McColl, Rockhill and Chesney under NC control too?

 

[Muss Muggins]

Um, NC. has attacked S.C. and annexed N. Myrtle Beach and Myrtle Beach? How far inland does this land seize go? Are McColl, Rockhill and Chesney under NC control too?

Open carry is legal in SC with a NC concealed carry permit . . .

 

[14daMoney]

did I enter an Allstate commercial - - - "Silence...."

This is in response to Lowa's post, as well as a general response on the topic.

In Calif, pursuant to PC 417 et seq, the circumstances described by OP would not be a crime. The various states may differ, and I don't know the law in ID.

Lowa's response regarding LE, at least in Calif, which he did not choose to exclude, is not correct. That may be due to good faith ignorance or as a part of his narrative as indicated in his last sentence. I think in his first sentence he is trying to state the LEOs do not understand laws, but the sentence is so poorly worded that even that is not completely clear.

I am not an attorney. But I have taken law classes, including at the FBI National Academy. For over 30 years I taught law in LE academies (recruit and in-service) and community colleges. Students/recruits have to pass a state test in each block to survive to graduate. Fail a test and there is one make up. Fail that and you go home. I have been on POST committees that review the legal curriculum and the tests. These tests are not easy. These tests and academy policies (which are mandated by Ca POST) apply to all peace officers throughout the state, including 'back woods' cops, who do indeed care, and for very good reason. Iowa's condescending opinion towards LEOs is factually inaccurate and obviously biased.

The comment on "illegitimate government" is irrelevant and political. LE agencies, and their LEOs work for the government the voters elected. That government may be objectionable to many of us in many of their actions but they are the result of voter preference. They can be voted out, or in some cases recalled, by the voters. But unless or until that happens they are legitimate. Any other alternative would be anarchy.

Having stated my thoughts I now look to Iowa to suggest how to bring all LEOs up to an academic level acceptable to him and how to move our government from illegitimacy to legitimacy. I also look for what actions he personally intends to take to attain these objectives beyond sending out clumsily worded cheap shots.

 

[Smoke]

I Have To Ask This Question

If you don't know what the law is in the state where the OP is at what possible good does it do to comment on the law where you're at? which has zero bearing on the question being asked.

 

[BB57]

Um, NC. has attacked S.C. and annexed N. Myrtle Beach and Myrtle Beach? How far inland does this land seize go? Are McColl, Rockhill and Chesney under NC control too?

Sorry. Reading comprehension error. Probably induced by working on airplanes for several hours at 98 degrees F and 70% humidity, on an asphalt ramp hot enough to melt my shoes.

I do however reserve the right to blame SC for the heat this week.


Ahhhem….but that said….

I’ve had an NC concealed carry permit for over 10 years now and it has always been honored in SC. *AND* open carry is legal in SC for SC residents with a concealed carry permit, *AND* for non residents with a concealed carry permit honored by SC.

So again my question is “when did this allegedly happen”.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I Have To Ask This Question

If you don't know what the law is in the state where the OP is at what possible good does it do to comment on the law where you're at? which has zero bearing on the question being asked.

That issue crosses all forum posts.

As an example: “I bought a Glock . . . “

Responses: “I have a goat farm . . . “