Off duty officers banned from carrying at New York State Fair...
- Thread starter G-Mac
- Start date
None of our useless gun laws apply to everyone. LEO can have any magazine they want. ARs , all the stuff everyday law abiding folks can't. I don't like it.
The Silly Pond
Exactly, there should be no LEO exemptions…not just for the fair. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
venomballistics
Member
when I got my CCW permit, one of the instructors was retired NYPD ..... living his retirement in Nebraska.
Not saying anything ... just sayin'
Not saying anything ... just sayin'
pantannojack
US Veteran
Since gang bangers are never "off duty" I imagine they will all be carrying
Well, I would suggest you pick up a rifle, and stand a post . . .
I mean really. Are you just mad because you didn't spend a career in peril every day?. Are you really trying to equate LEO's with music producers? If you are, I look forward to your argument . . .
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Muss, I think what he is saying and I tend to agree is, a cop wether ex or current is no better than me. In NY gun owners are vetted and checked more than anywhere. If I am deemed worthy of having a handgun I think I can be trusted to carry it at a fair. I don't buy the whole life of peril argument. It doesn't make you more trustworthy than me. When it comes to safety and marksman ship, I have shot circles around every cop I've ever shot with. That includes friends at the local, county, state and federal levels. In NY anyone with peace officer status can buy a handgun on their badge. No permit necessary. That's fine with me. They cleared all the checks to get the badge. But if something, anything is illegal it should be illegal for everyone in the state. What's next higher BAC for DWI limits because you drive a car with a siren? Stop it.
UncleEd
Member
Everyone in one way or another spends a life
in peril every day.
And just as a reminder, police work doesn't
appear in the top 10 most dangerous jobs
in America. In one list I saw it was No. 14.
I'm glad we have people who can and do the
crummy work that is often a LEOs job. But
don't glorify it to the point of special privilege
beyond others' lives.
I agree. But 1 thru 13 have less than 1% chance of getting shot at . . .
I'm not going to debate this. The above responses are duly noted . . .
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Not mad at anything, and have nothing against most LEOs.
My issue is unconstitutional laws in places like NY. Gun laws should not be two tiered, if off duty LEOs can carry at the fair, all civilians should be able to. If NY LEOs can have 15 and 30 round mags, all civilians should be able to.
smoothshooter
Member
( Yawn . . )
Tell us something that will surprise us.
Tell us something that will surprise us.
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And Montana. Sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to point out that it isn't just the states everyone here hates that have what I consider unreasonable restrictions.
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charlie sherrill
Member
Same thing happened at one of our local events. The powers that be decided they didn't want to pay $30.00 an hour for off duty officer security and went with the $10.00 an hour private security. A large fight/riot broke out and the security guys had no way to control it. The place was torn up pretty good by the time local LEO's arrived and took control.
Protocall_Design
Vendor
What unreasonable restrictions does Montana have?
Yup...they back-pedaled on this. Off-duty can now carry at the New York State Fair.
I'm not surprised. When I was in law enforcement I was required to be armed when off duty.
I was wondering how off duty officers would reconcile potentially conflicting requirements. The only workable choice is to not attend the fair and that isn't promoting public safety.
Police officers frequently overstate the peril. Worse, when faced with an actual deadly threat they seem to be prone to erring on the side of getting home at the end of the shift rather protecting the public. Uvalde wasn't good PR for law enforcement.
Uvalde aside, there are roughly 3400 ag pilots in the US with an average of about 55 accidents and 12 fatalities per year.
That's a death rate of 352 per 100,000 per year.
In comparison there are roughly 900,000 police officers in the US and 2021 saw 458 officers killed (a 55% increase compared to 2020).
That's a death rate of 50.88 per 100,000.
No doubt about it, 50.88 per 100,000 is high, it's about twice as high as the murder rate for people living in Rocky Mount NC.
But crop dusting is 6.9 times more dangerous than being a police officer, so excuse me for not being overly awed by the risks law enforcement officers voluntarily take when they pin on the badge.
Interestingly when I was in law enforcement in the mid 1980s my mom was scared and wanted me to come back and farm. I had to point out to her that the death rate for farmers and ranchers was greater than the death rate for police officers.
In any case think of and thank us ag pilots next time you are in the grocery store.
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Agreed.
Data in a number of states indicates that while law enforcement officers are three times less likely to be convicted of a felony or misdemeanor than the general public, concealed carry permit holders are six to seven times less likely to be convicted of a felony or misdemeanor than a law enforcement officer.
That makes concealed carry permit holders an exceptionally low risk when it comes to people carrying guns at a fair.
Given that;
- many, if not most states prohibit consuming alcohol while carrying a gun under a concealed carry permit;
- that in any jurisdiction having alcohol, or other drugs in your system in any amount will either impair your judgement or be viewed as impairing tour judgement; and
- work and or be used against you in asserting self defense as a justification for the use of lethal force;
the majority of concealed carry permits carrying a firearm just don't drink or consume other drugs. That deterrent effect means people legally conceal carrying at a fair are most likely not going to drink and will be less likely to cause or escalate a problem.
The there is also the reality that if it's a state that allows concealed carry and it's not a gun free zone, criminals have to consider the potential for armed "victims" willing to defend themselves and are going to be less likely to attempt a crime.
In short, there isn't a down side to allowing properly vetted concealed carry in venues like a state fair - but it doesn't fit the narrative.
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I do see a ban like this being useful in making the point to police chiefs (who are often motivated by the people who appoint them to speak out against guns and concealed carry) that going unarmed doesn't solve any problems.
Interestingly, sheriffs who are elected by the people in a county and are accountable directly to the people will almost always support concealed carry and armed citizens as they recognize that it is not a police responsibility to protect you from murder, rape and assault, and that even if then try, they will rarely be there in time to actually do so. They'll make it clear that the responsibility for your self defense rests squarely with you.
Weak preemption laws, which result in local rules on discharging firearms...and local rules for non CWP holders. And concealed carry in Montana is a privilege, not a right, it says as much in their state constitution.
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