"Take your gun to church" - fascinating opinion enjoining a piece of NYS legislation

[ISCS Yoda]

"Take your gun to church" - fascinating opinion enjoining a piece of NYS legislation

Admin Edit-
The topic here is the Court decision affecting the lawful carry of guns in churches.
The topic is NOT discussion of:
The Ten Commandments
Judeo-Christian ethics and morals
Theology or religion in general
The history of racial issues
Current racial issues.
The rules have been posted in this forum for many years- Sticky: RULES - General Posting Rules and they STILL say:

The following topics are BANNED on this Board:
Abortion
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Do NOT participate in discussion of banned topics.

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I'll allow this thread to remain open as long as it stays ON TOPIC- the carrying of guns in churches- PERIOD.
//////////////////////////////

original topic:


US District Court Decision - Case 1:22-cv-00771-JLS

This opinion devastates the NYS approach to getting around the SCOTUS's Bruen decision.

 

[vt_shooter]

I know I'm singing to the choir here, but it's outright evil that politicians want to leave entire congregations defenseless if a whacko decides he's going into a church to perpetrate mayhem.

 

[moosedog]

My Priest is pro-gun and encourages carrying in church as long as concealed.

 

[cgt4570]

Until churches have metal detectors at the doors, my thought will always be: "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".
If I ever draw in any public place, it's gonna be necessary and justified.

 

[murphydog]

My church went through this thought process about 5 years ago and an armed, trained team was formed. If you are diligent about the "rings of security" it is highly unlikely the team will need to use potentially lethal force. Food for thought.

 

[GaryS]

My understanding is that in Colonial and post Revolutionary times it was normal practice to bring firearms to church.

In many places there was some risk of attack by Indians and it was wise to be armed.

Before my time, but that's what I have read.

 

[StrawHat]

…"It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"…

I prefer, "it is better to be acquitted by 12 than carried by 6"

Kevin

 

[dockmurgw]

I cannot imagine living in a place where bringing a gun to church is even a thing. I pity anyone who lives in such a place.

 

[WR Moore]

I expect the liberal answer to security at places of worship would be for them to hire armed security/off duty LEOs. Now, if all the various faiths would bond together and demand that, the resulting shortage of protection would make great press.

 

[murphydog]

I cannot imagine living in a place where bringing a gun to church is even a thing. I pity anyone who lives in such a place.

Sadly, just as with other self-defense situations, violence is an unpredictable event and houses of worship are not only subject to them, but have been specifically targeted.

 

[68Dave]

I carry at Church. It's a medium sized but steadily growing church outside of town. The sheriff , the ATF agent, the undercover drug cop and multiple other congregants all carry at church.
We have a security / safety team on rotation.
There are different wings and upstairs sections of the building.
I'm glad it's protected but pray it is never needed.
David

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I cannot imagine living in a place where bringing a gun to church is even a thing. I pity anyone who lives in such a place.

I cannot imagine living anywhere in 21st century America where bring a gun to church is NOT a thing; I pity anyone who lives in such a Pollyanna world that this obvious fact is not recognized.

 

[Dave Baird]

Being PD in the past, I was asked to speak to our church board about safety. Surprisingly, they were against it. I even suggested non-lethal and/or just having maybe the ushers walking through the building during classes and services to show a presence at least. I never heard back. It's kind of sad. I understand no one wants violence in a church setting....but it's happening! CCW was not addressed at least. I think back to that young shooter who just started killing people sitting in their own church, one by one and evidently there was no one there to stop him. I believe 8 were killed, don't remember. VERY sad.
Dave

 

[dockmurgw]

Pollyanna? Yea...ok...whatever. Trust me when I tell you this, Dallas Texas does not represent all of 21st century America...not by a long shot, thank God for that.

 

[K Frame Keith]

All of their "sensitive spaces" appear to be just the kind of places a responsible gun owner would choose to go legally armed. Watch the news, the criminals looking to kill strangers frequently choose malls, theaters, churches and parks. Duh.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Pollyanna? Yea...ok...whatever. Trust me when I tell you this, Dallas Texas does not represent all of 21st century America...not by a long shot, thank God for that.

Not to belabor the point, but if you look up some of the places where churches were shot up they were NOT all in big cities like Dallas, NY, Chicago, LA, etc. Same with schools. Uvalde ain't no big town. Neither is Sutherland Springs.

Hope in the Heartache: Sutherland Springs One Year Later - Lifeway Research

Church shootings have occurred in the following small towns:

White Settlement, Texas
College Park, Georgia (2)

Actually, if the moderators don't get angry with me, here is a list of church shootings in America since 1999. A third occurred in what I would call larger cities but two-thirds happened in what I consider to be relatively small, quiet towns.

Copyright © 2022 · Lifeway Research

How Frequently Do Church Shootings Occur? - Lifeway Research

And they just list churches; there is passing reference to other types of religious houses of worship. I'm not sure what happens to the percentages if those are added in. Wikipedia lists 5 synagogue shootings in the 21st century. The AP has a list of various houses of worship across America and there are ever so many NOT in big cities.

So it has nothing to do with Dallas or any similar city. Any church, anywhere, is subject to an attack in the 21st century.

To paraphrase the late, lamented Johnny Cash, "Don't leave your gun at home, son, don't leave your gun at home".

 

[jimmyj]

CCW is encouraged at my Church.
We have a Safety Team comprised of mostly retired LEOs, U.S. Marshalls and U.S. Border Patrol. We have three Sunday services. The Safety Team has assigned positions which change at each service. Frequent and firing range practice is required. 3/4 of the team has gone though the State "D' acadmy (unarmed security) and the State "G" acadmy (armed).

 

[Auburn4]

At my parish we have off duty, county sheriff deputy's at each mass. There are some crazy's in this world. To many people that are in charge, live in the past. It is a whole new way of life out there. "GEE" I wonder why firearms sell's are the most in the history of our country?

 

[glenwolde]

I cannot imagine living in a place where bringing a gun to church is even a thing. I pity anyone who lives in such a place.

Violence can happen anywhere. Ultimately it's up to the clergy and the parishioners.

After 2nd shooting there in 2 decades, Brattleboro's All Souls Church again seeks healing - VTDigger

 

[handejector]

The topic here is the Court decision affecting the lawful carry of guns in churches.
The topic is NOT discussion of:
The Ten Commandments
Judeo-Christian ethics and morals
Theology or religion in general
The history of racial issues
Current racial issues.
The rules have been posted in this forum for many years- Sticky: RULES - General Posting Rules and they STILL say:

The following topics are BANNED on this Board:
Abortion
Religion
Racial issues
Gay rights/homosexuality
General LEO bashing
Political Discussion and Comment
Do NOT participate in discussion of banned topics.

If you have trouble understanding any of the big words above, consult a dictionary for clarification before posting.
I'll allow this thread to remain open as long as it stays ON TOPIC- the carrying of guns in churches- PERIOD.