A visit to Germany...

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Last month, I spent ten days in Germany and Austria...I wanted to attend some Christmas Markets, see the Alps in winter, and visit some friends in Munich.

Let me say at the outset here that I love this country, and I wouldn't consider living anywhere else. But every time I visit my ancestral homeland, I am struck by the stark differences in behavior and conduct over there. For example...

At gas stations, you pump your gas, then go inside and tell the cashier which pump you used, and you pay for your purchase. There is no pay-at-the-pump or pay-first required, not even a way to do so if you wanted to. Yes, there are signs advising that the pumps are under video surveillance, but the real reason nobody drives off without paying, even with very high fuel prices, is simply that Germans don't do that sort of thing.

When jewelry stores close for the day there, they don't remove merchandise from their windows, nor do they have bars or grates covering the front of the store. Rolexes, Breitlings, Omegas, etc., are right there, behind a pane of glass...but nobody does a smash-and-grab, because Germans don't do that sort of thing.

On this trip, I drove more than 900 miles in both countries...and didn't see any trash or debris on the sides of the roads. Public bathrooms are spotless..the cleanliness is remarkable.

Speaking of driving...they drive on the right and pass on the left, period. And where there are speed limits, they obey them strictly. There's no right-on-red permitted, and they come to a stop at stop signs and red lights.

The real shocker to me is in the area of public safety and crime. Yes, of course there are criminals there, but violent crime is a fraction of what it is here. For example: Baltimore, a city of 585,000 people, recorded 334 homicides for 2022...Germany, with a population of 83,000,000, had 257 murder victims nationwide in all of 2021.

As I said, I love my country...but man, we could learn a lot from our European friends...
 
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...My ancestors on both sides came to the US from Germany 200 years ago. But when I look at the history of Europe over those 200 years I thank my ancestors for their foresight...

Most of my German ancestors came to the USA during the late 1800s, when there was a lot of social and political turmoil there during Bismark's unification of the country. Prior to that time, Germanic people lived in various nation-states and little political entities, and getting everybody on the same page was a difficult undertaking...

Unification of Germany - Wikipedia
 
On my daughters recent trip,she and her boyfriend attempted to cross a street in the middle of the block and got the glare lol.They never did it again ;-)

On more than one occasion in Germany, I have stood on a street corner in pouring rain or driving snow, with no traffic coming, and waited along with everyone else for the WALK sign to come on... :)
 
I lived in Germany for five years as a child, and attended German schools for three of those. Frankfurt and then Munich. I've never been back, but would like to someday.
 
Last month, I spent ten days in Germany and Austria....
I started typing a long-ish reply, but (perhaps fortunately) got stuck. In short, some of your observations suggest a stronger sense of "what's good for us" rather than "what's good for me." They don't litter because it inconveniences/annoys others. They wait for lights because it maintains a sense of good civic order.

We tend to wear our personal freedoms on our sleeve, perhaps because our country (and I include Canada in this) was settled by individualists who were escaping authoritarian regimes and took very long, deep breaths of the freedoms and liberties afforded by a new land, and this has become part of our social DNA.

The relative lack of violent crime, though, may be (dare I say it?) because the average disaffected and mentally-unbalanced individual has a much harder time acquiring deadly weapons – which doesn't apply to real criminals, of course. We have this same situation north of 49. But I'd best just not go there or I'll get infracticated :eek:
 
I started typing a long-ish reply, but (perhaps fortunately) got stuck. In short, some of your observations suggest a stronger sense of "what's good for us" rather than "what's good for me." They don't litter because it inconveniences/annoys others. They wait for lights because it maintains a sense of good civic order.

We tend to wear our personal freedoms on our sleeve, perhaps because our country (and I include Canada in this) was settled by individualists who were escaping authoritarian regimes and took very long, deep breaths of the freedoms and liberties afforded by a new land, and this has become part of our social DNA.

The relative lack of violent crime, though, may be (dare I say it?) because the average disaffected and mentally-unbalanced individual has a much harder time acquiring deadly weapons – which doesn't apply to real criminals, of course. We have this same situation north of 49. But I'd best just not go there or I'll get infracticated :eek:

It's crystal clear to me that the people of Germany and Austria (and some of the other countries I've visited there) do indeed think in terms of society as a whole. German drivers, for example, think of each other as kindred souls, whereas we Americans view other drivers as competitors to be bested.

There is also a strong inclination to respect and obey authority...and that has not served them well on some obvious past occasions.

I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding our cultural inclination toward individualism. But that has both good and bad aspects too.

The difference in violence is so great that it cannot be explained by the availability of firearms. Many Germans own guns, and shooting sports are celebrated there, especially in small towns. (See attached article.) Besides that, the lack of gas pump drive-aways and jewelry store smash-and-grab robberies indicates to me that it is the overall culture, rather than the availability of guns, that is responsible for the low crime there.

Sch"utzenk"onig – Wikipedia
 
Saw a video the other day. A Recently naturalized citizen, formerly a German national, went back home with his new wife and son to see family in Bremen. In 3 days he was saying he missed the US. Different strokes for different folks.

I have several German friends who visit here as often as i visit there. They love our vast open spaces, our national parks, and the diversity of our landscape.

I do love to visit there...but I am always happy to come back home.
 
At gas stations, you pump your gas, then go inside and tell the cashier which pump you used, and you pay for your purchase. There is no pay-at-the-pump or pay-first required, not even a way to do so if you wanted to. Yes, there are signs advising that the pumps are under video surveillance, but the real reason nobody drives off without paying, even with very high fuel prices, is simply that Germans don't do that sort of thing.

Hubby's parents used our place in Switzerland as a base to explore surrounding countries. They once gassed up in Germany but found themselves unable to pay, having only brought an ATM card. The cashier scowled at this, pointed at my MIL and said "Frau stay here".
Taken aback at being ordered to leave his wife there as collateral, my FIL ventured out in search of an ATM, then had trouble finding the gas station again in the age before GPS. Took him quite a while and MIL was getting worried, but FIL finally returned with cash and she was released.

Something else about some gas stations in Switzerland which was different and sometimes quite convenient. My small village had back then, and still has a 24 hour unattended set of gas pumps. Pay the electronic kiosk, select the pump, and fill er up.

Photo from Google of the unattended 24hr pumps in my former village.

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3bf34a716827becd5c9320aa471933ea.jpg
 
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"Europe was created by history, America by philosophy." Margaret Thatcher
Germans were traditionally the largest immigrant group to this country, in the 19th Century the 48ers, then a steady stream of people who, despise a booming economy, got fed with up with the nastiness of Bismarck's politics, the name calling, the authoritarianism, the police state, his arrogance and conceit, his egotism. Then 2 world wars did a good job of eliminating the best, the brightest, the bravest, Hitler complained in 1945 that the best had already fallen, those who were left were worthless. Then you have ethnically homogeneous societies, immigration at most on a low scale.
 
My best friend's mother is German. He's been there a few times to visit family.

He loves it there, for all the above mentioned reasons.

I went to West Germany, Austria, and the German speaking area of Switzerland on the spring of 1983 for a German class trip.

I liked Switzerland the best.
 
I am soon to be 69, born in Frankfurt when parents were stationed in Germany. Father is 92, still kicking and wanted us both to go back, we never did and now likely never will.

Interesting, this summer we were headed to the Black Hills of SD and ran into a group of motorcycle riders from Germany. Struck up a conversation and this was their second trip for a group of about 15. They fly into Denver, rent Harley's and ride all over. They LOVE the U.S., heard that over and over.

My last name is Custer and did a bunch of research on my families heritage for a reunion. A fair number of Germanic peoples fled during the various Catholic inquisitions as well. My ancestors were part of starting Germantown, PA.
 
As I said, I love my country...but man, we could learn a lot from our European friends...

Well, guess you were lucky those ten days and really just saw the good over there.

I won't go in much further, because it will get me banned for life here on the forum. I'm glad you enjoyed your time and so have many others who vacation there or are stationed there with the U.S. Government. But y'all haven't seen anything!
 
I had an uncle who spoke very little English and my sweizerdeutsch/German wasn't much better. He was fascinated with the old west,so on their trips here I'd take him jeeping around the old ghost towns seeing the sights. We'd crack each other up trying to communicate.It was a hoot lol
 
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Well, guess you were lucky those ten days and really just saw the good over there.

I won't go in much further, because it will get me banned for life here on the forum. I'm glad you enjoyed your time and so have many others who vacation there or are stationed there with the U.S. Government. But y'all haven't seen anything!

I visit Germany almost every year, and at one time or another have been to every part of the country except the far eastern regions. I am well aware they have social and political problems there, and you and I could probably list them quite easily. But what I was trying to emphasize in starting this thread was that there is an overall cultural atmosphere there of civil behavior and honesty, and I think that's true.
 
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