This customer started good but likely will get charged because he went too far. We'll see.
WATCH: Man Shoots Robber in Houston Restaurant [VIDEO] | Heavy.com
WATCH: Man Shoots Robber in Houston Restaurant [VIDEO] | Heavy.com
Houston Taqueria Customer Kills Robber
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From the story...
Might not be quite so cut & dried as the statute implies. According to a Texan on another forum, who lives in that jurisdiction, the local DA/prosecutor is hard Left and will likely go after the shooter with all the weight of her office. What'll happen? We'll see.
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IronSkillet
Member
No different then officer magazine dump, so what exactly is to far?Maybe not the way a trained professional would react but a good samaritan under a stressful encounter like this, add in Texas, following with intere4st.
I don't think the police will have a hard time locating that truck - even in Texas it's gonna stand out. I read about it prior to this post going up. He might have gotten away with leaving the scene but I read he walked over and continued to shoot the subject on the ground ? If true, that's gonna get him arrested. I have not seen the video however - none of the links work.
NFrameFred
Member
Yeah, started out as justified, but it appeared that there was no imminent danger once the robber hit the floor after a second or so. Based on just viewing the video several times (with the sound on), as an instructor I had always tried to impart to my students that as soon as the threat was neutralized they were no longer justified in firing further shots or pursuing and firing at someone who was running away. Civilians are usually judged differently from LEO's in those situations, again, based on specific unique circumstances.
In a lot of cases different circumstances put a different color on the unique actions and unique conditions of a specific, isolated altercation. In 'the heat of the moment' and pushed by fear and 'hyper adrenaline' it appeared to me the shooter took it too far.
Armchair quarterbacking. I also stressed to my students that their actions decided and acted upon by them in fractions of a second would be analyzed, reviewed and judged by a court system that had hours, days, weeks, months, and even years to adjudicate the lawfulness and appropriateness of their decisions.
I personally don't view his chances with that favorably. Especially on the civil end of things after the criminal process takes its course.
In a lot of cases different circumstances put a different color on the unique actions and unique conditions of a specific, isolated altercation. In 'the heat of the moment' and pushed by fear and 'hyper adrenaline' it appeared to me the shooter took it too far.
Armchair quarterbacking. I also stressed to my students that their actions decided and acted upon by them in fractions of a second would be analyzed, reviewed and judged by a court system that had hours, days, weeks, months, and even years to adjudicate the lawfulness and appropriateness of their decisions.
I personally don't view his chances with that favorably. Especially on the civil end of things after the criminal process takes its course.
A shame there is so much video "evidence" available. No good deed goes unpunished..
OP
The last shots where the perp was on the floor not moving are problematic, as is the fact that the shooter left the scene. Killing to prevent the robbery would be legal under TX law; killing to prevent escape or pinishment not so much. Remember, 'turn it on' to meet the threat, 'turn it off' when there is no threat.
Here is the Texas Criminal Pattern Jury instruction that applies:
To decide the issue of prevention of a felony, you must determine whether the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, two elements. The elements are that—
1. the defendant's use of force was not immediately necessary to protect the defendant against [name]'s use [or attempted use] of unlawful deadly force; and
2. the defendant's use of force was not immediately necessary to prevent [лате]? imminent commission of [aggravated kidnapping/murder/sexual assault/aggravated sexual assault/robbery/aggravated robbery].
You must all agree that the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, both elements 1 and 2 listed above.
If you find that the state has failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, both elements 1 and 2 listed above, you must find the defendant "not guilty."
If you all agree the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, each of the elements of the offense of [insert specific offense], and you all agree the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, both elements 1 and 2 listed above, you must find the defendant "guilty."
Reasonable Belief
"Reasonable belief" means a belief that an ordinary and prudent person would have held in the same circumstances as the defendant. CPJC 35, found at Full text of "Texas Criminal Pattern Jury Charges—Criminal Defenses 2018, edition"
Here is the Texas Criminal Pattern Jury instruction that applies:
To decide the issue of prevention of a felony, you must determine whether the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, two elements. The elements are that—
1. the defendant's use of force was not immediately necessary to protect the defendant against [name]'s use [or attempted use] of unlawful deadly force; and
2. the defendant's use of force was not immediately necessary to prevent [лате]? imminent commission of [aggravated kidnapping/murder/sexual assault/aggravated sexual assault/robbery/aggravated robbery].
You must all agree that the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, both elements 1 and 2 listed above.
If you find that the state has failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, both elements 1 and 2 listed above, you must find the defendant "not guilty."
If you all agree the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, each of the elements of the offense of [insert specific offense], and you all agree the state has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, both elements 1 and 2 listed above, you must find the defendant "guilty."
Reasonable Belief
"Reasonable belief" means a belief that an ordinary and prudent person would have held in the same circumstances as the defendant. CPJC 35, found at Full text of "Texas Criminal Pattern Jury Charges—Criminal Defenses 2018, edition"
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I'm not so sure they're going to find that dude to "question" him.
Seems to me he isn't very squeamish about using deadly force. Almost like it wasn't his first time....
Seems to me he isn't very squeamish about using deadly force. Almost like it wasn't his first time....
Another link to the security footage. A determined prosecutor could argue it went beyond self-defense.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1611708199933206528
https://twitter.com/i/status/1611708199933206528
BLACKHAWKNJ
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Massad Ayoob has written that "flight equals guilt".Hhe has stated that you remain at the scene, when the LEOs arrive you invoke your rights, say you will only speak to them after talking to counsel, etc.
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Watched the video a couple days ago. Initial shots were good, could probably make an argument that maybe there was something going on for one or two the second round, but dude went right up to the robber, who was on the ground and unmoving, and popped him once more. Looks pretty bad to me.
OP
They were going to find him - his attorney is trying to arrange a meeting.
HOUSTON - Houston police say an attorney is making arrangements for the customer who shot a robbery suspect at a restaurant to speak with investigators.
The man has not been charged. Police say the customer left after the Thursday night shooting in southwest Houston, and they want to speak with him. Houston taqueria shooting: Arrangements being made to speak with customer, police say
HOUSTON - Houston police say an attorney is making arrangements for the customer who shot a robbery suspect at a restaurant to speak with investigators.
The man has not been charged. Police say the customer left after the Thursday night shooting in southwest Houston, and they want to speak with him. Houston taqueria shooting: Arrangements being made to speak with customer, police say
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Forget finding him. They should hire him.
PPS1980
Member
Someone well familiar with use of a weapon involving other humans. Casually left the premises after the shooting. No rush. Reportedly left the parking lot like he was pulling out of church on Sunday. No, this fellow is not unfamiliar with the acts we are talking about. Might not be quite as easy to find him as many believe. Hope the "far left" prosecutor actually follows the law.
PPS1980
Member
Why do they want to talk to him. Tips?
Oooh boy....this is another one of those "peeling the onion" cases...layer upon layer upon layer.
Some people are saying, "But the robber had a fake gun!" So what!! It looked real and apparently had the same result as people were handing over their money to the guy.
Other comments are, "But was the shooter afraid for his life?" I don't know about you, but when some guy in a hoodie with a mask over his face points a firearm at me...you betcha...I'm afraid for my life.
Another comment..."He kept shooting when there was no longer a threat." Maybe...but as several on this forum know firsthand, when adrenaline kicks in, and especially when one thinks his or her life is in danger, it's pretty tough to keep one's cool, so to speak.
Okay. Those things can probably be argued in the shooter's favor. The one thing that might be a little tough to get around is the fact that the guy left the scene. Personally, I don't know how he's going to get by that one. It says he's already secured the services of an attorney. Good....because he's going to need one.
Just my view from the saddle.
Some people are saying, "But the robber had a fake gun!" So what!! It looked real and apparently had the same result as people were handing over their money to the guy.
Other comments are, "But was the shooter afraid for his life?" I don't know about you, but when some guy in a hoodie with a mask over his face points a firearm at me...you betcha...I'm afraid for my life.
Another comment..."He kept shooting when there was no longer a threat." Maybe...but as several on this forum know firsthand, when adrenaline kicks in, and especially when one thinks his or her life is in danger, it's pretty tough to keep one's cool, so to speak.
Okay. Those things can probably be argued in the shooter's favor. The one thing that might be a little tough to get around is the fact that the guy left the scene. Personally, I don't know how he's going to get by that one. It says he's already secured the services of an attorney. Good....because he's going to need one.
Just my view from the saddle.
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What I'm thinking and seeing from the video and most of the previous comments. A person points a gun at people and robs them and the public wants to hang the person that killed him. Larry
Nobody is shedding tears for the robber. Ive not even seen anyone argue that it being a BB gun made it a bad shoot.
Watch the video. Four shots were absolutely good to go. Shooter stopped, reassessed, continued shooting the entirely motionless robber four more times. These don't look great. Shooter then waits two or three seconds, stands over the robber, who has been motionless since shot four, and pops him one more before leaving.
It is entirely reasonable to both agree with the initial shooting and also think that maybe the "good guy with a gun" shouldn't be doing anchor shots on a motionless person at their feet. If he'd stopped at four, no doubts. Eight? Still doesn't look great but id give him the benefit of the doubt. Had he dumped the entire mag at once? No real issue there either. But it happened the way it happened, followed by him calmly leaving.
Watch the video. Four shots were absolutely good to go. Shooter stopped, reassessed, continued shooting the entirely motionless robber four more times. These don't look great. Shooter then waits two or three seconds, stands over the robber, who has been motionless since shot four, and pops him one more before leaving.
It is entirely reasonable to both agree with the initial shooting and also think that maybe the "good guy with a gun" shouldn't be doing anchor shots on a motionless person at their feet. If he'd stopped at four, no doubts. Eight? Still doesn't look great but id give him the benefit of the doubt. Had he dumped the entire mag at once? No real issue there either. But it happened the way it happened, followed by him calmly leaving.
