New model 41 Performance edition FTFire

[Realtree71]

Hi All

Just received a NIB model 41 PC Edition.

All cleaned and ready. Fails to fire several .22 cal choices

Armscor 36gr HV fires all rounds perfectly.

CCI Stinger 32gr HV fails to fire 1 out of 5

Aguila 40gr HV fail to fire 2/3 out of 5

Winchester Wildcat 40gr hv fail to fire most

Browning BPR 40gr SV fails to fire most

Ive heard these Model 41s are fussy but this fussy? I’ve broken it down a few different times to reclean and oil.

The gun has maybe 100 rounds through it.

On some/most fail to fire the extractor leaves round in barrel. And you can see on the round were it scratched the case but no fire-pin dent.

On a couple fire-reload the slide fails to close all the way.



Thought id post hear see if anyone knows about the new model 41s before i call S&W.

Thanks so much

 

[gdogs]

My 80's era Mod 41 isn't picky at all. Assuming the ammo is still good, there shouldn't be more than 1 FTF in a mag (if that) IMHO. That said, I'm not surprised by any horror story that I hear about brand new S&W's.

 

[Rule3]

CCI 40 gr standard velocity


But if it is OK with the 36 gr Armscor, keep using that until it loosens up some

 

[Yendor357]

Is your slide going into battery? If the slide is out of battery a 1/16 of an inch you’re going to get what appears to be a misfire. That’s a condition that’s easy to miss, but after you see it you won’t get fooled again.

Or your hammer spring is weak, or your firing pin is too short.

But I’m guessing the slide isn’t closing 100%.


My old 1986 Model 41 is a garbage disposal. If there’s priming compound in the rim, it’s going to feed, fire and eject. My new one isn’t broken in yet.

 

[gmborkovic]

Does the Factory test fire these m-41? It is advertised as a target gun.

 

[Tom S.]

IIRC, they work best with standard velocity rounds.

 

[SonofaGunsmith]

Its a blow back system, the extractor does not pull the case from the chamber. It only holds the spent case against the bolt face until ejector knocks it away. Try spent casings that havent hit the ground. They should go back in all the way without forcing it or it having a detent feel. I have seen new barrels that had small debris embedded in the chamber. One wisk of chamber reamer and gone. S&W recoil spring doesn't work for all ammo. If any of the ammo is years old then don't use it. S&W doesn't recommend HV ammo. CCI Std should be the baseline. That said there isn't one of these guns that may need a Wolf recoil kit. My 96 41 likes 6.5lb spring. Also they are noted for fte after cleaning. Until the chamber is seasoned again after a magazine of firing. Also check yourself, don't let the gun roll up in your hand, make sure that recoil is coming backwards to a firm grip.

 

[chief38]

Yup - I agree, there are only a handful of M41's that don't work well with CCI standard velocity 40 grain target ammo. If that ammo isn't cutting it - I'd call Smith and arrange to send it in.

While I have no scientific evidence of this, it does seem like the PC guns are much more problematic than the regular standard line over the last decade. At least that's what it seems like after reading a plethora of posts here on the Forum. Hmmmm, that seems counter intuitive to me! Spend more money and get an inferior pistol!

 

[jag22]

I had a lot of problems with the CCI standard but it was during the 22 shortage and I don’t think quality control was what it should be. I could tell just from the sound and feel.Newer stock seems to be better. If in doubt I stayed with CCI mini-mags, never had a problem with them.

 

[Yendor357]

On a side note….

A few weeks ago, I bought from EBay a 7 inch Model 41 barrel. I paid $400 for it. I assumed it was newish, but used. But what I received was a new, unfired barrel. It’s drilled and tapped, and has the newer style rear sights.
With that barrel and my second, newer lower, that combo will occasionally fail to fully close and will make a click instead of a bang. But man, is that barrel ever accurate! Several times already, I’ve put 5 shots around .75 inches at 25 yards. Once or twice, I’ve had 5 around a half inch, which is really good for me and iron sights.

I have a fresh .22 bore mop and some Wheeler polishing compound. If this little malady doesn’t soon rectify itself, I’m going to put a bit of polishing compound on that mop and chuck it into a drill, and have at it.

 

[Yendor357]

Fresh loaded rounds pretty much drop in tho thamber of my new Model 41 barrel. That’s not the problem.

Then I noticed the bottom of the Extractor was hitting (and still does) the bottom of the extractor cut out in the barrel. So I carefully polished the Extractor face and slightly rounded the bottom of the Extractor as well as the extractor cut-out in the barrel. No bueno.

So I got out the magnifying glass and examined the rims of chambered fresh .22 rounds. I spotted a small scrape on the rim. The Slide will easily close on an empty chamber. So there’s something just barely catching on the rim of the case, preventing the slide from closing. The edge around the rim cut-out on the breach face was sharp. So I wrapped a 1”X1” piece of 320 grit wet or dry sandpaper around the recoil spring guide rod. The guide rod was just the right size, and it was just laying there….So, l broke that edge on the case head cut-out on the breach face, and Viola!

I ran a mix of 90 rounds of CCI MMHP, and CCI Tac and some junk Win Wildcat (that my son bought for me, I normally don’t shoot that stuff) through the “Parts Model 41” without a single Failure to close. Normally (before) I couldnt get through a magazine full without a failure to close.

I chalk this little issue up to tolerance stacking. S&W built a lot of these pistols over the years. The Model 41 is built with very close tolerances. I’ve had 3 Model 41s. I know for sure I did a bit of polishing on 2 of them. Like I said earlier, my old Model 41 is a garbage disposal.

I’m going to buy a new recoil spring for my both my Model 41s, and stock up on CCI SV.

 

[Dave Lively]

It sounds like the slide is not going fully into battery or the extractor is not going over the rim. The rounds that work might be a little smaller in diameter allowing the extractor to slide over them.

It could be something like what Yendor357 described that you could fix yourself and avoid the hassle of returning the gun but I would still send it back since it's a new gun.

A lot of 41s, including mine unfortunately, are very picky about ammo. But that pickiness usually takes the form of cases not fully ejecting, stovepipes or failures to feed, not failures to fire.

 

[Rowlf]

European target pistols and US Bullseye pistolsmith pistols include certification targets to show performance. If S&W is trying to sell a target pistol why not include a test target?

 

[Yendor357]

Dave is right on the money regarding rounds with smaller dia case rims. My gun worked well with Geco ammo I had on hand. Son of a Gunsmith is also correct about old ammo.

In my opinion, a Model 41 should work with CCI ammo. I went to Rural King and bought fresh CCI Blazer; 100% with fresh Blazer ammo.

After just a little bit of polishing/breaking the edge in the right spots, the slide will close under spring tension, no matter how slowly I let the slide down.

We shouldn’t have to work on an expensive pistol to get it to work 100%. Oh well. I bet a lot of fussy/picky/ finicky Model 41s would be more reliable with a bit of attention.

Why doesn’t S&W test fire their products for functioning? Too expensive. They’d have to pass that cost along to the consumer, and they’d lose sales.

 

[AveragEd]

The guys who mentioned the gun not going fully into battery might be on the right track. I bought a new 7" Model 41 a year ago and it exhibited most of the same problems as yours except it wouldn't function properly with any ammunition.

I sent it back to Smith & Wesson and received it back in about a month, which I felt was a reasonable turnaround time. But the conditions remained so I took it to my local gunsmith. He acknowledged that he didn't have much experience with Model 41s but he offered to look at it. He started cycling the slide back and forth by hand and commented that it seemed harder to move than it possibly should.

He held a narrow straightedge against the rails in the slide and frame, finding some high spots. Rather than use anything abrasive so as to not remove more material than absolutely necessary, he cycled the slide by hand for a few minutes. When he felt it moved with the right amount of resistance, he filled a magazine with 10 rounds of a low-velocity match load. It chambered, fired, extracted and ejected all 10 rounds flawlessly.

I have always valued the service extended to me by Smith & Wesson's service department but I have to wonder why they didn't find a condition that a gunsmith lacking a lot of familiarity with that model was able to diagnose so quickly.

Due to some serious health concerns with my wife, I haven't been able to shoot it much so I can't speak to how accurate it is. I did put an optical sight on it so it's more user-friendly for my wife.

Ed

 

[gwpercle]

The Longer case on the CCI Stinger migfht not be compatable with the "Target" chamber ... you might want to keep the Stinger's for something else .

Back in the day we broke them in with 500 rounds of standard velocity ammo .

If the tight Target chamber is not to your liking ... it does get "picky" about what ammo it will shoot ... have a gunsmith ... polish and/or enlarge the chamber .

Model 41's can be extremely accurate ... I've several First Place Trophies with my 1974 model 41 ... but that accuracy comes with a price ... they are very selective about which ammo they shoot .

Most of my range trips now include a Ruger MK II with a red dot sight ...it's not as tack driving as the 41 but it will shoot just about everything that fits in the magazine ...
Since I no longer shoot for Trophies or Money ... I don't have to put up with the model 41's ammo idiosyncrasies !

Gary

 

[BB4XL]

Nothing from the PC center impresses me. I have a 625 from them that failed to fire over 1/2 the time. Sent it back 6 times . They would fire it and send it back. Told me nothing was wrong with it. They told me that they were done with it and I was on my own. Turned out the strain screw was shortened too much. Had to fix it myself. I would not buy anything new from them. good luck.

 

[505Gibbs]

European target pistols and US Bullseye pistolsmith pistols include certification targets to show performance. If S&W is trying to sell a target pistol why not include a test target?

Because it would require extra time & thus cost which is why they don't do it!
At least not in this day & age! It's all about the 'Benjamins'!

 

[Oldsalt66]

I don't believe your pistol is defective.

The ammunition that's giving you problems has bullet profiles that aren't allowing the pistol to go into proper battery.

I tried to shoot 40 grain plated solid HV Aguila in my new 41, which is normally my preferred ammunition in all of my other 22s, and the first round always fails to chamber properly and I need to fuss with the pistol to get it into battery.

S&B standard velocity 40 grain solid lead exhibits the same problem as well.

CCI Mini Mag 40 grain plated solid is absolutely reliable in my 41 as is CCI 40 grain lead standard velocity solids.

I bet 40 grain solid varieties of CCI will work perfectly for you and will delivery very good accuracy.

I wouldn't shoot Stingers or other hypervelocity loadings in a 41.

Before you buy any sort of premium target ammunition in bulk, I suggest trying a 50 round box first.

Don't dry fire the pistol.

Good luck.

 

[SonofaGunsmith]

Chambers on 41's

The Longer case on the CCI Stinger migfht not be compatable with the "Target" chamber ... you might want to keep the Stinger's for something else .

Back in the day we broke them in with 500 rounds of standard velocity ammo .

If the tight Target chamber is not to your liking ... it does get "picky" about what ammo it will shoot ... have a gunsmith ... polish and/or enlarge the chamber .

Model 41's can be extremely accurate ... I've several First Place Trophies with my 1974 model 41 ... but that accuracy comes with a price ... they are very selective about which ammo they shoot .

Most of my range trips now include a Ruger MK II with a red dot sight ...it's not as tack driving as the 41 but it will shoot just about everything that fits in the magazine ...
Since I no longer shoot for Trophies or Money ... I don't have to put up with the model 41's ammo idiosyncrasies !

Gary

Please never encourage any gunsmith to enlarge your chamber. Doing so will ruin the accuracy. Best efforts will only taper or bellmouth the chamber. Smith doesn't miss this. If a chamber gauge drops in there is nothing wrong but the ammo. All 22 is made to industry standards. Some hold the tolerances better and you pay for that. There are 2 industry standards, 22 match or 22 sport chambers each toleranced differently.