Huge S&W Warranty Repair Failure

[SWFan27]

I bought a new Model 617-6 revolver. This is the 10 shot 22LR K Frame that looks like a 686. It was shaving lead badly and I sent it back to S&W at the end of June. I got it back on 8/12. I put in snap caps tonight and was really shocked to find that the revolver is out of time in both single and double action on multiple cylinders. I was told previously that a Smith & Wesson gunsmith would do a full function check when it was just there for service.

I just got it back from them and need to send it back to Smith & Wesson again. I can't believe they missed the timing issues. I should have checked the timing myself before I sent it into them the first time. I said in my original complaint that it was shaving lead due to either a timing issue or a forcing cone issue, but I never checked it cylinder by cylinder. No one checked the timing at Smith & Wesson? BIG let down. I am hoping for an expedited repair.

 

[boykinlp]

I bought a new Model 617-6 revolver. This is the 10 shot 22LR K Frame that looks like a 686. It was shaving lead badly and I sent it back to S&W at the end of June. I got it back on 8/12. I put in snap caps tonight and was really shocked to find that the revolver is out of time in both single and double action on multiple cylinders. I was told previously that a Smith & Wesson gunsmith would do a full function check when it was just there for service.

I just got it back from them and need to send it back to Smith & Wesson again. I can't believe they missed the timing issues. I should have checked the timing myself before I sent it into them the first time. I said in my original complaint that it was shaving lead due to either a timing issue or a forcing cone issue, but I never checked it cylinder by cylinder. No one checked the timing at Smith & Wesson? BIG let down. I am hoping for an expedited repair.

So, it may have been out of time before you sent it in. Did they tell you previously that their gunsmith would do a function check when it was just there for service, or were you told that by someone else? They may have realized that the forcing cone was the cause of the lead shaving issue, fixed it, and shipped it back. I wouldn't assume anything other than what you requested would be looked at. JMHO.
Larry

BTW, make sure the lead shaving is fixed.

 

[rct269]

Your experience is simply a symptom of a change in philosophy from that of the first hundred years---We will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price. It's clear that philosophy began to change in the mid 1950's to success by building the product at the lowest possible cost.

Operating a commercial enterprise at the lowest possible cost gives rise to customer relations problems such as you have experienced, and those we've been hearing about here for a good long time.

Sad to say, these situations will continue until such time as they come to recognize the errors of their way---if ever. I say "errors", they are doing exactly as they've been told to do. Those who must recognize their actions as errors are those who call the shots. This sort of situation can go on for a good long time---for so long as there is an emerging customer base that doesn't know any better---or until there's an ownership change that does know better. Don't hold your breath!

We of what are most certainly regarded as malcontents are considered as pests to be ignored---as you're being ignored----in the expectation you'll give up and find another source to solve your problem(s)------and pay for their services. Sad to say, that's very likely your best alternative---in consideration of your mental health.

Also sad to say, let me suggest you're wasting your time pursuing a satisfactory resolution of your problems. You're just another one of those whack jobs with entirely unreasonable expectations in their eyes.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[SWFan27]

So, it may have been out of time before you sent it in. Did they tell you previously that their gunsmith would do a function check when it was just there for service, or were you told that by someone else? They may have realized that the forcing cone was the cause of the lead shaving issue, fixed it, and shipped it back. I wouldn't assume anything other than what you requested would be looked at. JMHO.
Larry

BTW, make sure the lead shaving is fixed.

S&W customer service told me that their gunsmith would do a full function check before I got it back. I guess that was not the case. I have two cylinders out of time. With the hammer fully locked I need to turn the cylinder to lock it into place. The out of time cylinders are right next to each other.

I did send it in to S&W originally saying it was shaving lead due to either a timing issue or a forcing cone issue. I am not a gunsmith but those are the first things I would think to check for a lead shaving issue on a brand-new revolver. Would it really have taken their gunsmith more than a couple minutes to function check all ten cylinders?

I have the same thing going on with my 617 as the guy did in this video. He gets to the timing check near the middle of the video.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab0YwDAHrVQ&t=201s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab0YwDAHrVQ&t=201s[/ame]

 

[6string]

Smith & Wesson has gunsmiths???

I thought they all retired and were replaced with CNC machines!

 

[robertrwalsh]

That is what happens when bean counters take over. Look what it did to Boeing when engineers no longer ran the place.

 

[Ignatz]

Whenever I send a 929 in for repair, I expect to get it back with the worn/broken parts replaced, but not fitted. Its amazing that they come back unfitted, but the person replacing the parts does not do the final fitting.
You have to call again and plead to have the revolver sent to someone who knows how to tune it.
Second time is usually a charm. Alert!!!...There are people there that know what they are doing.

Here's my last 929 saga.
Last year at this time I broke a trigger pin, so I had to send it back in. They ended replacing the frame and sent it back to me.
Because I shoot USPSA, I left my Dawson front sight on and my Millett rear sight on too.
The front sight was smashed and the rear sight bent over. I ordered another Dawson front sight and carefully pinned it in correctly. I'm still left with a crooked rear sight that's not available.
Because the action was never refit right, back it went for the second time.
When it came back after the second repair, the new Dawson front sight was damaged again. Also while it felt better, it had to go back for a third time.
After the third return, they replaced the complete cylinder assembly and tuned it correctly.
I actually called S&W back and told them to praise the last Tech who worked on my 929.
I'm into my forth case of primers this year, as my wife and I shoot USPSA and some other matches all year round.
For me, sending revolvers back several times has become a normal process. Sad, but that's the way it is.
I have three 929's and a 5" 627 with a titanium cylinder, so I can still play games while one of my revolvers is back at S&W.

 

[Baxter6551]

The horror stories I read on the Forum about the repair and quality control issues are terrible enough to steer me away from buying any new production S&W firearms. Who knew I would ever say that. I really like those new 442 UC too!
As bad as I feel for the OP I feel worse for Ignatz and wonder why continue to send your revolvers back to S&W? Performance Center?? Really?
Did you complain about your damaged sights (not that it would have done any good). I'd find a good gunsmith to work on your guns vs. sending back to factory. But that's getting to be a challenge too….. the good ones are retiring either by choice or as I have heard in my area by anti gun landlords raising rent or other issues.
I'm fortunate to have the memories of driving to S&W to have a trigger job or other work done, dropping off at the service center, having lunch and then picking the work back up completed and without charge for law enforcement. And being offered a new set of grips from the display on the counter (I don't think the shop guys there liked Pachmyer). All in an 8 hour time span !

 

[Farmer17]

All the new guns I've bought from S&W in the last 5 years have worked perfectly and I'm very happy with them. When you hear of several complaints some people might think everything they turn out is total junk but there are hundreds of thousands that are fine guns. It's very sad they don't spend enough time getting warranty work done right. Sometimes it takes more than one or two attempts to fix a certain problem whether its a gun, car, house, computer, lawnmower, etc. but when they miss the obvious things that's really inexcusable.

 

[Ignatz]

Where do you get parts for a S&W 929?.........the mothership.
S&W is not responsible for aftermarket parts. I took a chance and lost.
My last 929 repair went back and forth three times, six trips insured.
New frame and cylinder assembly and cost me nothing. Just my inconvenience.
Let me know where I can order a new 929 cylinder or frame, you can't.
And sadly, where do you send a 929 to an independent repairman who can get parts? Not sure if they exist.
Years ago, I would get upset and call back for a return ticket. Now I just call back and say its me again, its coming back again. No sense for me to get upset. Sad, but that's the way the process goes.
Action jobs, cylinder chamfering, barrel throat cutting are easy with tools I have at home, but big ticket parts like cylinders and frames need to go back for warranty repairs.

 

[scooter123]

I have a big problem with these Internet methods for checking timing. First, S&W Revolvers are COMBAT REVOLVERS. This means that they are designed to function properly after being dropped in a muddy trench while the Huns are charging your Trench. Now, when this is taking place are you really going to take 4 to 5 seconds to cock the hammer for Single Action or pull the trigger for Double Action. Absolutely NOT if you want to survive the encounter, you'll be pulling that trigger as fast as you can. Take care to pull the trigger or cock the hammer in 1 second or less and you'll very likely find your timing functions perfectly.

 

[SWFan27]

I have a big problem with these Internet methods for checking timing. First, S&W Revolvers are COMBAT REVOLVERS. This means that they are designed to function properly after being dropped in a muddy trench while the Huns are charging your Trench. Now, when this is taking place are you really going to take 4 to 5 seconds to cock the hammer for Single Action or pull the trigger for Double Action. Absolutely NOT if you want to survive the encounter, you'll be pulling that trigger as fast as you can. Take care to pull the trigger or cock the hammer in 1 second or less and you'll very likely find your timing functions perfectly.

The cylinder should not turn when the hammer is locked all the way back. I have at least two chambers where I need to turn the cylinder to lock them into place when the hammer is all of the way back. Checking timing is a pretty basic test and gunsmithing 101 stuff. My S&W 686+ and Model 66 are certainly Combat Revolvers. My problematic new 617 is marketed as a 22LR Target Revolver.

 

[ladder13]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Sad times at S&W.

 

[Dave686]

S&W customer service told me that their gunsmith would do a full function check before I got it back. I guess that was not the case.

For decades Smith & Wesson was the gold standard for customer service. Their guns, like any manufacturer may not have been perfect, but when they were made aware of a problem; they fixed it. Unfortunately that's not the case anymore.

You did nothing wrong, blaming you for what you told them is simply the kind of non-sense we have to deal with nowadays.

Any competent gunsmith should have found the timing issue on a gun shaving lead, regardless of what else he found. That's just basic troubleshooting.

Hopefully they will get it straightened out for you. It's a shame how far they have fallen.

I was hoping we could get them to stop their careless MA ways, but maybe they haven't had enough time. Was your gun sent to MA or to Tennessee?

 

[hkcavalier]

I have three 929's and a 5" 627 with a titanium cylinder, so I can still play games while one of my revolvers is back at S&W.

Now I'm wondering if S&W can fit a titanium cylinder to a 627...I guess I missed the point of this thread!

 

[SWFan27]

For decades Smith & Wesson was the gold standard for customer service. Their guns, like any manufacturer may not have been perfect, but when they were made aware of a problem; they fixed it. Unfortunately that's not the case anymore.

You did nothing wrong, blaming you for what you told them is simply the kind of non-sense we have to deal with nowadays.

Any competent gunsmith should have found the timing issue on a gun shaving lead, regardless of what else he found. That's just basic troubleshooting.

Hopefully they will get it straightened out for you. It's a shame how far they have fallen.

I was hoping we could get them to stop their careless MA ways, but maybe they haven't had enough time. Was your gun sent to MA or to Tennessee?

The MA location was on the FedEx label. I just dropped it off again.

 

[SWFan27]

Smith & Wesson sent me another return label and I just dropped off my 617 to FedEx again and it should get to S&W Tuesday. I am hoping they can properly time all 10 chambers of the cylinder. I would like to think that they are capable of doing that. Hoping they can and do, and that I get it back really soon.

 

[Dave686]

The MA location was on the FedEx label. I just dropped it off again.

I just looked at their website and it appears revolvers are still being made in MA. That sucks for all of us, but I hope they can fix your revolver.

 

[SWFan27]

I just looked at their website and it appears revolvers are still being made in MA. That sucks for all of us, but I hope they can fix your revolver.

Looks like S&W Customer Support is still located in MA.

Customer Support
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01104
Tel: 1-800-331-0852, ext. 4125 • 413-781-8300

 

[TAROMAN]

Smith & Wesson has gunsmiths???

I thought they all retired and were replaced with CNC machines!

Or injection molding ones..