44-40 round?

[jeffrefrig]

Up above in the 1980-present Section, "Special state of mind", there's a picture of someone's 44-40 (Nice gun, BTW). Please be gentle with my ignorance, but is that a special gun/chambering for that cartridge or can it be used in any .44 Mag or Special? I never really paid attention, but I kinda thought it was made for rifles only? Maybe?
I DO like shooting the .44Specials out of my 629-6 for nice follow up shots and my middle finger doesn't get the devil beat out it from the stupid trigger guard. But this is a question about 44-40.
Can anyone (try to) set me straight on this?
Thanks! Jeff T.

Edit: I'm not talking about the OP's post but someone else's pic below that one.

 

[.455_Hunter]

The .44-40 or .44 WCF was developed for the Winchester 1873 rifle and quickly found favor as a chambering in complementary revolvers, like the Colt SAA. It is not interchangeable with the .44 special or .44 mag.

 

[murphydog]

It's a tapered round so bigger than the .44 Special/Magnum at the rim end, and historically had guns with bore dimensions all around the .430" range.

The only 'recent' S & W product in this chambering was the model 544 Texas Wagon Train commemorative, with a bore diameter the same as the .44 Special/Magnum, so some have had dual cylinders made.

 

[Alk8944]

.44 WCF, aka .44-40 is a bottle-necked cartridge that is not interchangeable with .44 Special or Magnum. Guns must be specifically chambered for this cartridge.

 

[470Evans]

I love my Colt SAA in 44-40. I read somewhere on the forum there are a few Smith HEs in 44-40, love to run across one of those.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... or get a Texas Wagon Train like @murphydog pointed out. As I recall they were five inch barrels with nice wood grips.

I see them occasionally and I almost bought one back in the 1980s but something always comes up instead.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

.44 Winchester Center Fire was introduced about 1873 along with the new Winchester lever action rifles, later adapted to revolvers such as the Colt SAA Frontier Six Shooter allowing for long and short arms chambering the same cartridge.

Essentially a center-fire adaptation of the older .44 Henry rimfire cartridge.

Very popular in North America, Central America, South America, Europe, Australia, just about everywhere except the large game fields of Africa and India.

Also very popular beyond the offerings of Winchester and Colt. Marlin, Ballard, S&W, and a dozen other gun makers offered the cartridge as a standard chambering. Most did not wish to advertise another maker's caliber designation, thus the cartridge became more popularly known as the .44-40; ostensibly a .44 caliber bullet (actually .426-430 or so) with capacity for 40 grains of black powder (probably impossible, but a good advertising gimmick).

Very similar in case head and body dimensions as the .45 Colt (now commonly known as .45 Long Colt), another 1873 introduction. It is generally possible to form .44-40 cases from .45 Colt cases, although manufacturers will vary in dimensions. There were no meaningful standards back in those days.

From a practical standpoint, modern users usually find that the .44 Special will do everything just as well with more modern case design having stronger case walls and neck thickness. Handloaders can find the .44-40 to be a challenge, particularly if they are accustomed to more modern designs.

Yes, I shoot .44-40 regularly using a 1914 Colt and a 1905 Marlin. Both are challenges for the shooter and reloader.

 

[biku324]

You can do a lot worse than watching for a 544; since they're commemorative, they're very often unfired. I've had two, and enjoyed both immensely, but I reload; factory 44-40 can be pricey.

 

[mchom]

2nd Model 44-40

Picked it up courtesy of a kind fellow forum member

The SA shipped to St. Louis MO
The NS shipped to Michigan Nat. Guard

 

[jeffrefrig]

Mchom, hope I got it right, those are just some fine-looking revolvers. I would really love to see any one of those on a shelf around here. They would probably sell within two days after the first customer saw them! Those are some prime examples of what they are!

 

[Wyatt Burp]

.44 Winchester Center Fire was introduced about 1873 along with the new Winchester lever action rifles, later adapted to revolvers such as the Colt SAA Frontier Six Shooter allowing for long and short arms chambering the same cartridge.

Essentially a center-fire adaptation of the older .44 Henry rimfire cartridge.

Very popular in North America, Central America, South America, Europe, Australia, just about everywhere except the large game fields of Africa and India.

Also very popular beyond the offerings of Winchester and Colt. Marlin, Ballard, S&W, and a dozen other gun makers offered the cartridge as a standard chambering. Most did not wish to advertise another maker's caliber designation, thus the cartridge became more popularly known as the .44-40; ostensibly a .44 caliber bullet (actually .426-430 or so) with capacity for 40 grains of black powder (probably impossible, but a good advertising gimmick).

Very similar in case head and body dimensions as the .45 Colt (now commonly known as .45 Long Colt), another 1873 introduction. It is generally possible to form .44-40 cases from .45 Colt cases, although manufacturers will vary in dimensions. There were no meaningful standards back in those days.

From a practical standpoint, modern users usually find that the .44 Special will do everything just as well with more modern case design having stronger case walls and neck thickness. Handloaders can find the .44-40 to be a challenge, particularly if they are accustomed to more modern designs.

Yes, I shoot .44-40 regularly using a 1914 Colt and a 1905 Marlin. Both are challenges for the shooter and reloader.

I reload .44 Special but not .44-40 but I have a .44 Spl cylinder that works perfectly in my 1890 Colt SAA .44-40. But I really don't trust shooting .429 bullets in a probably .427 bore, blackpowder only of course. Overly cautious, you think? I just picked up a 1984 Colt Frontier Sixshooter .44-40 pictured here below my Centennial Colt .44-40. I shoot the Centennial with a nickel .44 Spl cylinder.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I reload .44 Special but not .44-40 but I have a .44 Spl cylinder that works perfectly in my 1890 Colt SAA .44-40. But I really don't trust shooting .429 bullets in a probably .427 bore, blackpowder only of course. Overly cautious, you think? I just picked up a 1984 Colt Frontier Sixshooter .44-40 pictured here below my Centennial Colt .44-40. I shoot the Centennial with a nickel .44 Spl cylinder.

RE: .429 bullets in early Colt (.426-.427).

Probably not a problem, but I would (and I do) stick with lead bullets and modest loads. I would expect stout loads with jacketed bullets to be more likely to cause problems. Black powder loads require compression of the BP charge, so reduced loads can be another challenge; I have read of the use of compression wads and/or inert filler material, but I have no experience with those.

My Colt SAA Frontier Six Shooter is 1914 production. Before reaching the bore the first challenge presented is the .426-.427 chamber mouths. If .429 bullets were attempted in that revolver I suspect that the loaded cartridges might not chamber at all.

The standardization processes (such as SAAMI in North America) have been a major improvement, but apply only to the modern products. Those of us who enjoy the older vintage firearms have to stick with the old rules and cautions.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

The only 44-40 I ever owned that Black Powder Frame Colt SAA I got from the Retired Deputy Sheriff.
Traded him a wood stove.
It was a Hurt Piece with one claim to fame.
The Deputy was wearing it as an Extra in the Movie 'Lonely Are The Brave.'
When Kirk Douglas gets off his horse and sneaks around that big boulder,
He's standing on top that rock wearing it.

 

[gwpercle]

Up above in the 1980-present Section, "Special state of mind", there's a picture of someone's 44-40 (Nice gun, BTW). Please be gentle with my ignorance, but is that a special gun/chambering for that cartridge or can it be used in any .44 Mag or Special? I never really paid attention, but I kinda thought it was made for rifles only? Maybe?
I DO like shooting the .44Specials out of my 629-6 for nice follow up shots and my middle finger doesn't get the devil beat out it from the stupid trigger guard. But this is a question about 44-40.
Can anyone (try to) set me straight on this?
Thanks! Jeff T.

Edit: I'm not talking about the OP's post but someone else's pic below that one.

The 44-40 is a tapered ...sorta bottle necked round ...
Think of it as a 45 Colt case necked down from 45 cal to 44 cal.... the 44-49 has a bit more rim for positive rifle extraction but you get the idea .
It is Not intechangable with 44 mag./44 special ...
You need to have a 44-40 cylinder chambered for 44-40 cartridge to shoot it .
I know all this is confusing and hope this helps ...
Don't ask about the 38-40 cartidge ... that one is so confusing it isn't funny !
Gary

 

[twodog max]

The 44/40 is a bottleneck cartridge that in many rifles and some brass leave the impression that is is only tapered. As originally designed it was for .427 bullet diameter. Quality back in the late 1800's and early 1900's was a little lax and bores are found that are way out of spec.
Fast forward to today and we still find various size bore. Some Italian made replicas stay with .427 some do not. The Miroku Winchester are .429. I have a Model 92 Miroku Winchester only a few years old that is .429.
The 44/40 is another round that for best results you will need to slug the bore to get correct diameter for reloading. Especially with lead bullets. Also you will need to match the expander to your bore size for easier loading.
The brass has extremely thin necks in all brass I have used , and I have tried about all of them. They are easily wrinkled or collapsed by getting in a hurry with seating and crimping.
If one takes the time to cover all the bases of careful reloading the round is an extremely fun cartridge. To shoot with both smokeless and black powder.
Factory ammo from what I have seen bullets can vary in diameter a lot and some are prone to bullet setback into the cases in the mag tube. Not from recoil just spring pressure so be diligent in using factory stuff.
A great fun round capable of taking deer size game within reasonable ranges. Low recoil and very accurate if all components are matched.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Another recollection about .44-40 is the factory ammo from years before about 1960, frequently indicating which firearms the ammo was intended for. "Rifle" or "revolver" frequently specified on the box, some indicated specifically for Marlin, Winchester, or Colt.

Possibly (but not certainly) indicating higher or lower pressures, or larger vs. smaller bullet diameters.

I've seen such advisories on ammo from several manufacturers. Obviously the differences were well understood.

 

[twodog max]

Another recollection about .44-40 is the factory ammo from years before about 1960, frequently indicating which firearms the ammo was intended for. "Rifle" or "revolver" frequently specified on the box, some indicated specifically for Marlin, Winchester, or Colt.

Possibly (but not certainly) indicating higher or lower pressures, or larger vs. smaller bullet diameters.

I've seen such advisories on ammo from several manufacturers. Obviously the differences were well understood.

That is correct. That ammo was loaded some years back. I am almost certain that 60 something years ago I saw my Dad using high pressure ammo in a 32/20 but it has been a long time.
Model 92 Winchester will easily stand this high pressure ammo however older revolvers and Model 73 Winchesters may not. The weak link for the 44/40 is once again the brass. In Mike Venturino's writings he mentioned early brass failure in higher pressure 44/40 loads. Myself I have not done this but If Mike said it happened then it did.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

The only 44-40 I ever owned that Black Powder Frame Colt SAA I got from the Retired Deputy Sheriff.
Traded him a wood stove.
It was a Hurt Piece with one claim to fame.
The Deputy was wearing it as an Extra in the Movie 'Lonely Are The Brave.'
When Kirk Douglas gets off his horse and sneaks around that big boulder,
He's standing on top that rock wearing it.

That is my favorite Kirk Douglas movie. I read that it was his personal favorite, too. Now I have to dig it up somewhere so I can spot your gun's cameo appearance. Gena Rowlands is one of my top three actresses of all time.

 

[Bryan Austin]

Another recollection about .44-40 is the factory ammo from years before about 1960, frequently indicating which firearms the ammo was intended for. "Rifle" or "revolver" frequently specified on the box, some indicated specifically for Marlin, Winchester, or Colt.

Possibly (but not certainly) indicating higher or lower pressures, or larger vs. smaller bullet diameters.

I've seen such advisories on ammo from several manufacturers. Obviously the differences were well understood.

The ammunitions manufactures put names on the boxes to insure the shooter that the particular ammo could be used in their arm. The 44-40, unlike the 45 Colt, had many names but was only loaded four ways that caused any confusion;

44/100
44 (Winchester)
44 WCF
44 CF
44-40
44 Remington (not to be confused with the other 44 Remington or the 44 Magnum)
etc...

by major manufactures...
Black Powder - 1873/74-1945
Early Smokeless Rifle Powders - 1894-1950's
High Velocity Rifle Powder - 1903-1945
Smokeless Pistol Powder - 1950's/60's-present

The only load that could not be used in pistols and "weak" rifles was the High Velocity loads.

The weight of the bullet (200gr Winchester/217gr Remington) was irrelevant.

 

[Bryan Austin]

The weak link for the 44/40 is once again the brass. In Mike Venturino's writings he mentioned early brass failure in higher pressure 44/40 loads. Myself I have not done this but If Mike said it happened then it did.

The 44-40 brass indeed had what is now considered weak cases. However, it is important to explain to insure it is not misunderstood or misrepresented.

Winchester and other early manufactures used what is unofficially called balloon-head cases. These cases were indeed solid-head cases, but had a "pocket" that surrounded the primer chamber. These "balloon-head" cases were used for the 44-40 High Velocity loads for 40 years, but were instructed to not be reloaded from this option. The cases are weaker than what we use today but could still be used and reloaded many times in their day.