1905 2nd 38spl w/ Flaming Bomb?
- Thread starter LLOYD17
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Model19man
Member
No idea but I rotated the image to be right side up.
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sent to Brits before 1941 Lend Lease
I enhanced your pic and I see the old WWI flaming Bomb and a distinctive Broad Arrow usually depicting a British "Factory Thru" repair or proof.
In this case FDR in June of 1940 sent 500 "obsolete surplus" Model 1899 and Model 1902, 38 Specials to Britian. He also sent 20,000 Model 1917 45 ACP.
Most of these went to New Zealand.
All above comes from Charlie Pates Book, any typos or other errors are mine.
Who knows if you get to handle the gun in person, you may find other British proofs or reimport stamps somewhere, or it came back in a duffel or seabag. The bomb does look kinda faint, maybe polished over somewhere along the way.
I enhanced your pic and I see the old WWI flaming Bomb and a distinctive Broad Arrow usually depicting a British "Factory Thru" repair or proof.
In this case FDR in June of 1940 sent 500 "obsolete surplus" Model 1899 and Model 1902, 38 Specials to Britian. He also sent 20,000 Model 1917 45 ACP.
Most of these went to New Zealand.
All above comes from Charlie Pates Book, any typos or other errors are mine.
Who knows if you get to handle the gun in person, you may find other British proofs or reimport stamps somewhere, or it came back in a duffel or seabag. The bomb does look kinda faint, maybe polished over somewhere along the way.
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It looks like the serial number is 723 something. That would put it in the range of early BSRs. I'm skeptical of the barrel length that you supplied. The 6 1/2" barrel was long gone by that time. There were some 6" units shipped to the UK during that period before they standardized on the 5" barrel.
still think it is a 1902 sent to Britian before Lend Lease
From the op's original pic with serial number right side up it does look like 131254 which could put it as a 1902, not a 1905 and the 1902 was with a 6-1/2" just like my US Army Model 1899.
The screwy thing is that I always thought the Model 1899 and the Model 1902 were ROUND butt only and the OP's pic appears to be square butt with "wanted poster hammer" grips.
From the op's original pic with serial number right side up it does look like 131254 which could put it as a 1902, not a 1905 and the 1902 was with a 6-1/2" just like my US Army Model 1899.
The screwy thing is that I always thought the Model 1899 and the Model 1902 were ROUND butt only and the OP's pic appears to be square butt with "wanted poster hammer" grips.
OP
cgt4570
Member
It's definitely pre-WW1. You correctly identified it. "The Book" doesn't mention any US military contract 1905-2nds, but this one might just be worth a letter. The flaming bomb looks very old, so I doubt it's a fake trying to increase the value.
Having an example of the Army 1899, Navy 1899 and Navy 1902 in the safes, I'm very curious about what you find out! Ask Roy for a ship date on the SWCA side. Sometimes, you get lucky and he'll hint that it's worth digging deeper.
I guess it's always possible that an officer ordered one through official channels, and it got inspected upon delivery. Who knows?
Wasn't a lot going on militarily speaking from 1906-1909.
I would expect a mil purchase to have a lanyard ring, but stranger things have happened.
Having an example of the Army 1899, Navy 1899 and Navy 1902 in the safes, I'm very curious about what you find out! Ask Roy for a ship date on the SWCA side. Sometimes, you get lucky and he'll hint that it's worth digging deeper.
I guess it's always possible that an officer ordered one through official channels, and it got inspected upon delivery. Who knows?
Wasn't a lot going on militarily speaking from 1906-1909.
I would expect a mil purchase to have a lanyard ring, but stranger things have happened.
Here’s a shot of the left side with the caliber marking on this side of the barrel which made me conclude it’s a 1905 2nd change.
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I'm not convinced that is a flaming bomb. Can you do a better pic?
Perhaps it is just a ding, or some character stamped by a PD. I don't think the gun has any military connection.
Perhaps it is just a ding, or some character stamped by a PD. I don't think the gun has any military connection.
OP
I left the gun on the table but here’s another crop. I noticed the ESPD stamp on the stocks first but then noticed the faint flaming bomb.
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Alk8944
US Veteran
There are several errors above concerning this gun. I have looked closely and finally could see what may be the U.S. Ordnance "grenade", it is not a bomb, although that is what it is commonly called. The British "Broad Arrow" does not indicate a "Full Thorough Repair", that was designated by an FTR stamp on the frame. The broad arrow indicates crown ownership of a weapon. I have no idea where you are seeing that! Just where on the gun are you seeing the broad arrow?
In both cases, if the gun did have either of these marks they would not appear on the butt of the gun, they would be on the left side of the frame and both would be very clear!
So far as the 6 1/2" barrel indicated on the the attached tag is concerned, as JP@AK stated the 6 1/2" barrel went away long before any BSR. It disappeared by 1910. Maybe whoever wrote the tag was guessing at the barrel length?
In both cases, if the gun did have either of these marks they would not appear on the butt of the gun, they would be on the left side of the frame and both would be very clear!
So far as the 6 1/2" barrel indicated on the the attached tag is concerned, as JP@AK stated the 6 1/2" barrel went away long before any BSR. It disappeared by 1910. Maybe whoever wrote the tag was guessing at the barrel length?
Whatever that is, I don't think it is the so-called flaming bomb.
Ordnance Corps
(c) Institute of Heraldry
Ordnance Corps
(c) Institute of Heraldry
I can see the “bomb pretty plainly. I also see the 1 and 8 numerals stamped below the “bomb.
I believe the numeral (1) was mistaken for an “arrow.
At that moment the BSR made its way into the conversation.
Yoda supplied the design details in the link. And I believe I can see the 4or 5 flames stamped into the butt of this gun. I’m curious.
The serial number on this era K frame was read from the barrel pointing right. It is 131,254. That puts the ship date about 1909. 6 1/2" barrels were found into the early teens and ended somewhere around #165,000. The ordinance stamp is a big question for this gun. The government used that stamp on WWI guns, but could this one have been drafted into service by the government in WWI.
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And subsequently furnished to a police department as surplus? Unfortunately, the history surrounding this gun will only barely be illuminated by a letter.
kwill1911
Member
FWIW, I think the Ordnance (note the spelling) Insignia ("flaming bomb") is spurious.
I am afraid that piece of the gun's history will never be found, but how many people have that stamp laying around and why would they use it anyway?
kwill1911
Member
The stamps are easily obtained and are used to enhance perceived value. You can buy one here: U.S. Ordnance Metal Hand Stamp - SARCO, Inc
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