Other than maybe getting my foot run over, the Walmart sweat hog on a scooter is not my big concern. But off the shelf .38 target load wadcutters are not now, or ever been, a good SD choice.
Heavy Clothing Stops .38 Wadcutter!
- Thread starter Dump1567
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Other than maybe getting my foot run over, the Walmart sweat hog on a scooter is not my big concern. But off the shelf .38 target load wadcutters are not now, or ever been, a good SD choice.
As I recall the Winchester Super X wadcutter was always at the top of the velocity charts among the major manufacturers. Fiocchi was always near the bottom. For this reason I use the Fiocchi for all of my practice/training in Airweight and Air Lite J frames. For carry I go to hardcast Buffalo, Underwood or Georgia Arms loads.
But group placement, which also means fast and accurate follow up shots mean more than ammo choice. Practice, practice, practice.
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These are more meant for older shooters or those with physical limitations. People usually choose these loads instead of going with a 22lr or the like...
There are many well-stated opinions and experiences regarding the selection of handgun type and ammo type for self-defense.
The more I read posted comments the more I’m confident I made the right decision to buy a compact/subcompact semi-auto pistol.
With my level experience in self-defense with a firearm, I don’t know that I would be so good and practiced at hitting the C-Zone of an attacker at any distance out to 25 yards with the first shot or 5 more shots?
So…. if law enforcement stats indicate that in officer-involved shootings they miss their target 23% to 53%, having 10 to 15 rounds in my handgun in a defense situation should give me a much better chance of hitting the target.
The more I read posted comments the more I’m confident I made the right decision to buy a compact/subcompact semi-auto pistol.
With my level experience in self-defense with a firearm, I don’t know that I would be so good and practiced at hitting the C-Zone of an attacker at any distance out to 25 yards with the first shot or 5 more shots?
So…. if law enforcement stats indicate that in officer-involved shootings they miss their target 23% to 53%, having 10 to 15 rounds in my handgun in a defense situation should give me a much better chance of hitting the target.
A better choice for SD carry in light weight snubbys for older shooters or those with physical limitations would be the common std. pressure 130 gr FMJ ammo often used as practice ammo. Higher velocity and much better penetration than the target WCs.
hkcavalier
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Hornady had a 90gr .38 Special load for some time (maybe still do) with a pink tip...read into that what you will. But out of a 686 6" they kicked like a .22 Magnum in a 648. Loaded with such it was a "house gun" for many years for my wife, who is far more recoil sensitive than I am, but now she's gone with a Shield 9mm.
AJ
US Veteran
I will stick with a WC, it is not all about penetration. Placement has quite a bit to do with it. Five inches of frontal penetration will be sufficient to stop most fights.
I carry 148 gr HC wadcutters. But not the factory stuff. I load them as hot as my fingers on a 642 can stand. Hotter, +P (still .38), for my 19-2 drawer gun.
April here. No heavy clothes for 6 months. Then still SC.
A youtube video I saw - maybe same as OP - showed remarkable penetration by the WC on gel with no front covering. Like 20 inches. Should put an excellent drain hole in a perp. Remarkable for 600 something fps.
Still 12" with light clothing.
April here. No heavy clothes for 6 months. Then still SC.
A youtube video I saw - maybe same as OP - showed remarkable penetration by the WC on gel with no front covering. Like 20 inches. Should put an excellent drain hole in a perp. Remarkable for 600 something fps.
Still 12" with light clothing.
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Law enforcement are reckless and they have a a proverbial license and protections to kill, innocent people included. I guarantee you that if they had less in their gun to work with, their hit percentage would go up. Carrying 10-15 rounds because you plan on sending over half of those rounds into God knows where and God knows who sounds like a silly and incompetent plan to me.
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It's great that you are interested in the subject. Yes there are many opinions and anecdotes. You'll have to work on discerning which form a basis of evidence that is beleivable and can be extrapolated to your own situation.
Keep in mind that wadcutters of any sort are rarely available for semi-auto pistols due to feed issues. So IMO the take-away should be that shot placement is key. There are no guarentees (ie magic bullets) but it would be worth familiarizing yourself with the ammunition choices for caliber and barrel length of your handgun.
The other takaway is that you need to know the limitations of yourself and your equipment. In other words, this should not be a question. Get yourself to the range and find out what you can do at known distances without any chaos or other decision making. That's your baseline. Having more bullets will not be helpful if you are missing. Having an easier to shoot pistol will not help if its operation is not well practiced and the weaknesses of its operation not known. A semi-auto will fail to fire if its out of battery and it will often fail to cycle if grip and arm is not firm. Those are two common ones to be familiar with.
This thinking can get you in trouble. Kindof like driving, you are responsible for what the machinery does. If any of those misses hits a human being not involved in attacking, its on you. Police officers do not always get a legal pass on such misfortunes. As a citizen you almost certainly won't. You will also have to live with what you did. Police officers have an obligation to stop and apprehend criminals and sometimes need to shoot through stuff. As a citizen we only use deadly force to stop a deadly threat. Similar but different.
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Matt X,
Thank you for the great psychoanalysis.
Seriously…. You have provided some valid perspectives on the issue of self-defense with a handgun.
I read some very good take-aways.
My final take-way is like the big sign posted at the fence of a large field.
Attachments
High stress often affects accurate shooting even in experienced shooters. Some people couldn't hit water shooting from the shore. We've all seen them at ranges from time to time.
Model 15-4ever
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Oh yes, another popcorn-making thread on the legendary Manstopping .38 Special Target Wadcutter. Touted by many as the Load of Choice! I will definitely take it over a sharp stick.
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Model 15-4ever
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Perhaps you should discuss it with Tony................??
]
Tony's got a Grip Pod. Be careful.
AJ
US Veteran
Some of the poorest shooters I have seen are cops. Helped out doing some teaching when I was stationed on the West Coast. Sad sight at times, a lot just made enough points to qualify by the skin of their teeth. The best on one PD would choke in competition. In practice or in qualification he was hard to beat, but when the pressure was on he would drop about 20 points or so. Often wondered what he would do if the target was shooting back at him.
AJ
US Veteran
That is why it would not be a bad idea to have them shoot in competition. It increases the stress factor. In the MCSF Battalion, we shot a lot of man on man competition. Two sets of targets exactly the same with the shooters side by side. On the command both would draw and fire, the first one to knock all his steel targets down was the winner. Did some dueling trees also.
AJ
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Perhaps you should discuss it with Tony................??
]
Ole' Tony is a prime candidate for a failure to stop drill.
Most wadcutter loads...
... are target loads. There is nothing wrong with wadcutters as a defensive round, but if you want penetration for SD, you have to load them like a defensive round.
... are target loads. There is nothing wrong with wadcutters as a defensive round, but if you want penetration for SD, you have to load them like a defensive round.
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