Would You Tell Someone If You Noticed Them Printing.

[max503]

I’m new to these forums…and don’t wish to give the wrong impression…. reluctant to tell on myself…but here goes:

In 2018 while Vacationing in ID and MT (open carry?) we stopped at a small cafe for lunch. We dropped some post-cards into the sidewall mailbox outside the cafe before entering, and sat down to order. We were viewing the menu when…
A middle-aged “heavy” man with his back to us was bending over talking to another guy sitting at a table. I noticed the 1911 he wore on his right-side in a “bikini”, sharply-canted-holster, which due to his bent-over stance and canted-holster, the muzzle was pointed directly at the back of my wife’s head. The hammer was cocked and It was not possible to see if the safety was on (condition two) and he was so overweight his disheveled clothing appeared that any casual movement might cause a discharge.

I walked over, apologized for the interruption, and mentioned the problem, asking him to shift his position…. to which he responded brusquely “None of your f-in’ business!” He remained bent-over leaning on his friend’s table.

What I did next might have gotten me in trouble… but his response so pizzed me off that I grabbed his right elbow/arm pushing it fwd (preventing his using it) and pulled his pistol from the holster, dropped the mag onto the floor, and cleared the slide. By now he’s pulled away from me and started yelling, but I pushed the slide-release and slid it off the frame and handed the slide to him.

I dropped the frame into the mail-box outside on the sidewalk and walked to my truck a block away (my wife was right behind me acting confused and angry at me. I hate it when women distractingly yell at their men when in dangerous situations.) The guy and his buddy were right behind me yelling and I told them to call the sherriff. My heart didn’t stop racing for hours.

We drove to the next town for lunch and expecting flashing-lights…but never heard a further word.

That’s the only time I’ve ever acted so reckless. Ordinarily I mind my own business.

Thank you for the story. I could see why you acted this way. Few things anger me as much as someone being reckless with a gun, then refusing to correct when being told about it.
I'm glad it worked out for you.
"I dropped the frame into the mail-box outside on the sidewalk"
This is the part I really like.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I’m new to these forums…and don’t wish to give the wrong impression…. reluctant to tell on myself…but here goes:

In 2018 while Vacationing in ID and MT (open carry?) we stopped at a small cafe for lunch. We dropped some post-cards into the sidewall mailbox outside the cafe before entering, and sat down to order. We were viewing the menu when…
A middle-aged “heavy” man with his back to us was bending over talking to another guy sitting at a table. I noticed the 1911 he wore on his right-side in a “bikini”, sharply-canted-holster, which due to his bent-over stance and canted-holster, the muzzle was pointed directly at the back of my wife’s head. The hammer was cocked and It was not possible to see if the safety was on (condition two) and he was so overweight his disheveled clothing appeared that any casual movement might cause a discharge.

I walked over, apologized for the interruption, and mentioned the problem, asking him to shift his position…. to which he responded brusquely “None of your f-in’ business!” He remained bent-over leaning on his friend’s table.

What I did next might have gotten me in trouble… but his response so pizzed me off that I grabbed his right elbow/arm pushing it fwd (preventing his using it) and pulled his pistol from the holster, dropped the mag onto the floor, and cleared the slide. By now he’s pulled away from me and started yelling, but I pushed the slide-release and slid it off the frame and handed the slide to him.

I dropped the frame into the mail-box outside on the sidewalk and walked to my truck a block away (my wife was right behind me acting confused and angry at me. I hate it when women distractingly yell at their men when in dangerous situations.) The guy and his buddy were right behind me yelling and I told them to call the sherriff. My heart didn’t stop racing for hours.

We drove to the next town for lunch and expecting flashing-lights…but never heard a further word.

That’s the only time I’ve ever acted so reckless. Ordinarily I mind my own business.

So, if I'm tracking this, you assaulted him and stole his firearm . . .

 

[walkin' trails]

The part about the 2A demonstrators is particularly worth mention. These fanatical hardheads also hurt their own cause. Regrettably, they lack both the intellect and diplomatic manner to ever figure that out.

I’ve always wondered about the real motives of some of those “2A” demonstrators. I recall when various states started to return to OC, various idiots started packing openly in Starbucks. Wasn’t just limited to handguns, as some were packing long guns on slings. Starbucks finally issued a statement affirming concealed carry but scorned OC. Meanwhile, an anti gun reporters wrote about buying a Glock 19, and without any training, strapping it on, unloaded in a cheap holster and going to her favorite coffee shop. The was disappointed that no one seemed to notice.

 

[Smoke]

So, if I'm tracking this, you assaulted him and stole his firearm . . .

He put his hands on him wouldn't that be battery?

 

[BB57]

So, if I'm tracking this, you assaulted him and stole his firearm . . .

Agreed.

With that confrontational gun grab (and after any point he was trying to make was already made) the assault was obvious, and the assailant now having the victim's gun made him an imminent threat. Depending on the details, the jurisdiction, and how a prosecutor views who started and who escalated that little CF it may or may not be a good shoot, but the odds of getting shot as well as prosecuted are a lot higher than zero.

In the stab and grab store gun theft video, it started as a property crime (and not a justifiable use of lethal force in many jurisdictions), but as soon as the thief turned around and pointed the gun, he became an assailant and an imminent threat. While usually much more discreetly carried, a small pistol may well just be someone's back up, not their primary self defense handgun.

Why would someone intentionally put themselves in essentially the same position trying to make a point about a poorly concealed handgun?

 

[Taj]

There's a difference between deliberate open carry and inadvertently exposing your firearm. You get that right?

Yeah, I think after 30 years in law enforcement and 40 years teaching at POST acdemies, I get it. The point is, here, it is not that relevant if you accidentally expose a concealed FA. Nobody craps their pants, calls the cops. You get that, right?

 

[Smoke]

Yeah, I think after 30 years in law enforcement and 40 years teaching at POST acdemies, I get it. The point is, here, it is not that relevant if you accidentally expose a concealed FA. Nobody craps their pants, calls the cops. You get that, right?

I don't know where "here" is but not everywhere place in the world is "here".

 

[Smoke]

Agreed.

With that confrontational gun grab (and after any point he was trying to make was already made) the assault was obvious, and the assailant now having the victim's gun made him an imminent threat. Depending on the details, the jurisdiction, and how a prosecutor views who started and who escalated that little CF it may or may not be a good shoot, but the odds of getting shot as well as prosecuted are a lot higher than zero.

In the stab and grab store gun theft video, it started as a property crime (and not a justifiable use of lethal force in many jurisdictions), but as soon as the thief turned around and pointed the gun, he became an assailant and an imminent threat. While usually much more discreetly carried, a small pistol may well just be someone's back up, not their primary self defense handgun.

Why would someone intentionally put themselves in essentially the same position trying to make a point about a poorly concealed handgun?

Of course, all of that assumes that this occurred some place other than in the posters mind

 

[BB57]

I don't know where "here" is but not everywhere place in the world is "here".

Agreed. How people react when they see a gun varies widely.

In large part it depends on how common concealed carry happens to be, and whether open carry is allowed or not.

We've all no doubt stood in line with anti gun Karens who would lose their stuff if they knew we were armed, and they are clearly more prevalent in some areas than others.

There's also a huge difference between how law enforcement officers handle situations where people are conceal carrying.

For example in NC you are required to advice law enforcement upon initial contact if you are carrying a firearm and if you are a concealed carry permit holder to advise of carry status. in a traffic stop its a formality as its connected with your vehicle license plate, so they know before they approach your vehicle.

In other settings, you need to be more proactive and the results can get interesting. for example I stopped at a license and insurance checkpoint and the officer started talking 10 ft from the car explaining the checkpoint and asking for license and registration. as soon as I could get a word in edge wise I advised him of my permit and carry status. he started lecturing that I needed to tell him immediately so he was aware as it was an officer safety issue, yada yada yada.... I pointed out it it was the first thing I told him, as soon as he'd stopped talking. He calmed down a bit.

Fast forward a week and a dollar general sign fell on my truck. The responding officer arrived and I walked out of the gun shop I was at to meet him and announced my permit and carry status before he had a chance to say anything. His response was, so ok, and talked about being pro 2 A etc. I described my experience the week before and he agreed it was because the officer (in the same department was new and not yet comfortable with the fact well vetted, trained and permitted people carry guns and are less of a threat than the average person they encounter.

That mirrors my experience nation wide over 39 years of concealed carry in a number of different states where I have had resident permits or reciprocity.

Experienced officers in areas where concealed carry is common see it as a plus as you're a lot less risk than a non permitted (non vetted) person.

Officers with less experience or in states where concealed carry is uncommon or rare, tend toward over reacting and doing stupid stuff like insisting you get out of the vehicle for officer safety so they can subject you and the themself to their unnecessary administrative handling of your usually unfamiliar handgun while they unload it and secure it.

 

[Warren Sear]

Of course, all of that assumes that this occurred some place other than in the posters mind

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[djohns6]

I was thinking the same thing.

I didn't want to be the first one to say it .....

 

[pasound]

Here in my home state, licenseless concealed and open carry are legal. I see people in the WalMart or at the Piggly Wiggly with guns on their hip, but also see a lot with guns too big to carry, "hidden" in appendix mode.

 

[steelslaver]

I’m new to these forums…and don’t wish to give the wrong impression…. reluctant to tell on myself…but here goes:

In 2018 while Vacationing in ID and MT (open carry?) we stopped at a small cafe for lunch. We dropped some post-cards into the sidewall mailbox outside the cafe before entering, and sat down to order. We were viewing the menu when…
A middle-aged “heavy” man with his back to us was bending over talking to another guy sitting at a table. I noticed the 1911 he wore on his right-side in a “bikini”, sharply-canted-holster, which due to his bent-over stance and canted-holster, the muzzle was pointed directly at the back of my wife’s head. The hammer was cocked and It was not possible to see if the safety was on (condition two) and he was so overweight his disheveled clothing appeared that any casual movement might cause a discharge.

I walked over, apologized for the interruption, and mentioned the problem, asking him to shift his position…. to which he responded brusquely “None of your f-in’ business!” He remained bent-over leaning on his friend’s table.

What I did next might have gotten me in trouble… but his response so pizzed me off that I grabbed his right elbow/arm pushing it fwd (preventing his using it) and pulled his pistol from the holster, dropped the mag onto the floor, and cleared the slide. By now he’s pulled away from me and started yelling, but I pushed the slide-release and slid it off the frame and handed the slide to him.

I dropped the frame into the mail-box outside on the sidewalk and walked to my truck a block away (my wife was right behind me acting confused and angry at me. I hate it when women distractingly yell at their men when in dangerous situations.) The guy and his buddy were right behind me yelling and I told them to call the sherriff. My heart didn’t stop racing for hours.

We drove to the next town for lunch and expecting flashing-lights…but never heard a further word.

That’s the only time I’ve ever acted so reckless. Ordinarily I mind my own business.

I would think it much easier and safer to simply have the wife move out of line with the muzzle, rather than attack a person who wasn't doing anything illegal. I get the concern, but you yourself stated you couldn't tell if the safety was engaged. Not to mention the fact that you had no idea whether his companion was armed. In a lot of places in Montana, once you physically attacked the guy if either of them had killed or injured you they probably wouldn't have even spend the night in jail. In fact in small town Montana, that fat disheveled guy may well have been the sheriff, a county commissioner or a multimillionaire rancher. YOU HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA, YOU STARTED IT, YOU PHYSICALLY ATTACKED THE MAN, HE WAS ON HIS HOME TURF AND YOUR A STRANGER. Not very bright.

IMHO you made a bad situation way worse. You stated you left and went down the road to get lunch. Doing that as your first move instead of your last would have been a lot smarter.

 

[seabright60]

Nothing, unless I was acquainted with the individual or their gun was about to fall out of the holster. Just like I wouldn’t tell a complete stranger if their clothing was inappropriate, it’s not my business.

Same here and printing isn't against the conceal carry laws, I don't pay attention myself one way or the other if I or someone else is printing.

 

[seabright60]

I'd mind my own darned business because there is no law against "printing" in Florida, nor is accidental exposure illegal, but mostly because it's none of my business in the least.

Here in Florida the legal requirement is that the gun must simply be "concealed from ordinary sight", so if it's covered by cloth you're good to go.

Everyone who regularly carries a decent sized handgun prints on occasion to one extent or another.

Most passersby are oblivious.

I'm in florida also and if I said something to everyone who I can tell has a firearm on them I'd be talking to people I don't know 10 times a day lol it's too hot to gaf 7 months a year.

 

[PRM1]

I had an anti-gun lady approach me in a store. She must have seen my firearm print when I reached for an item. She immediately said, "are you carrying a firearm?" I smiled and replied, "No mam, that's my colostomy bag and it's been leaking today, don't get to close."

Conversation ended.

 

[shil]

I would just keep my mouth shut and stay away.

 

[steelslaver]

I had an anti-gun lady approach me in a store. She must have seen my firearm print when I reached for an item. She immediately said, "are you carrying a firearm?" I smiled and replied, "No mam, that's my colostomy bag and it's been leaking today, don't get to close."

Conversation ended.

I would have said well, yes I am. Aren't you? Let her howl if that's what she wants to do. I would just go on about my business knowing fully well if she made to much of a scene she would be the person who suffered from it not me. The sooner more "Karens" learned they have to live with it the better.

 

[roundels]

My wife spotted a print the other day and I totally missed it. She's a wheelchair user and thus is the right height to see such things, so there's another component to add to the conversation.

 

[Muss Muggins]

He put his hands on him wouldn't that be battery?

Well, whatever they call it in Colorado. In Missouri that would be at least a fourth degree assault. People get charges all confused all the time. For example, in Missouri, there's no attempted murder charge. It's assault first degree, but people get their internet muscles up all the time screaming for attempted murder . . .