but how do you quantify riskier?
If there is a one in a million chance of a negligent discharge with a revolver and a one in 850,000 chance of a negligent discharges a Glock is it really more dangerous?
S&W J frame vs. Glock 42
- Thread starter Markmontana
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If there is a one in a million chance of a negligent discharge with a revolver and a one in 850,000 chance of a negligent discharges a Glock is it really more dangerous?
What he said _ I have said this before: a while back I reviewed all my shooting incidents, varmints, combat, hunting, defense, and every single one was settled with less than 5 rds. Doesn't mean I won't run into the biker gang from Mad Max but, I certainly don't obsess about it. Gun with 5 (S&W 638) and a box of mixed loads in the glove box. So far (82) has got me there and back. Also very fond of my first gun: Ruger OM FT .44 w/4" bbl. I have MANY others but, those two always seem to follow me around.
walkin' trails
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With statistics from back in the early 90s, one entity where I worked at the time issued or authorized DA revolvers and semi autos from Glock and Sig. “ADs” seemed to be split evenly between the three operating systems (Sig was DA/SA). As an instructor, I’ve noted people who really aren’t that into guns, cops included, whose fingers naturally gravitate to the trigger all the time, not just when the gun is on target and the shooter ready to shoot. This is a training and familiarity problem. I think it is a result of someone who isn’t they comfort with what they carry and don’t see the benefits of addressing their fears by getting competent. The other “ADs” are likely caused during unconventional carry, such as stuffing in the waist band, dropping into a pocket full of other stuff, or into a purse or backpack along with aforementioned other stuff. Pocket trash has been known to get into the Glock trigger guards and various ranges of motion or sudden movements can cause chapstick to defeat a trigger safety and discharge a gun. So can keys, eyeliner, pens, and other crap. But it can also happen with other firearms. Maybe harder with a 10 lb plus revolver trigger, but sloppy habits with one gun spill over to others. And Glocks require the trigger to be pressed before disassembly so that accounts for probably more “ADs” than lipstick tubes. But any firearm requires training to become competent in handling, and Glocks, by design, aren’t anymore prone to unintended discharges than other quality designs. In fact, I recall a supervisor ventilating a wall while cleaning a revolver.
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It seems that you have a well thought out strategy. With the aforementioned vehicle burglaries, I’m curious as to how you, or anyone else, secures a rifle in a vehicle. I’m considering adding a PCC to my lineup but am concerned with leaving it in a truck.
That is a concern. IIRC, some LEO depts have used locking brackets, or other systems, to secure long guns. Fortunately, when I was jugged, they left the AR and P226 in the truck. They hit it in a busy retail parking lot. I had parked right up against the storefront sidewalk. When I came out of the grocery store, there were several witnesses that asked "Is that your truck?". They said a vehicle had stopped behind it, a "fat black dude" got out, broke the rear quarter glass, jumped halfway into the window, grabbed something and jumped back in the car, which sped off, with a deposit bag containing nothing but a receipt.
. There was also ~$600 in emergency travel cash stashed in the truck, but they didn't have time to go through the truck. Your question got me thinking "Do I have an Aimpoint on the truck rifle?" Just checked and that rifle has Magpul irons on it. The S&W sporters were very well priced, when I bought them, so I don't have much money in it. The P226 is a .40 LEO trade in I picked up, so not much $ in that either. I do not want to contribute to the # of stolen guns already on the street, but locking these guns up reduces accessibility, and could potentially increase risk. Neither are visible from outside the truck. The P226 is in a holster, fastened to the side (inside) of the center console. The rifle rides along the back of the drivers seat, butt on the floor, held in place between the seat, and a seat back caddy/organizer, which straps to the head restraint posts. The glass behind the front seats is the darkest legal tint. Removing the firearms at home is an option, but if seen, could tempt thieves. If your long gun has a folding stock, it could fit into something like a tennis racket cover/bag.The Wilson AR 300 BO "pistol" in my car trunk has an Aimpoint (both pricey), but the car is garaged. My home has security cameras, and motion lights, so the front is lit up, even when a car passes the house at night. The truck was also hit at our vet clinic, also in broad daylight, but that was a $5-6K cat theft (all 4 cats).
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Talk about living on the edge!
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When I was High School over 50 years ago, the debate was Ford VS Chevy.
You must have gone to a slow school. No GTO's, no GTX's? 440 Wedge rules. Hemi's 2nd. place.
Loaded 2LBS. Yes a little heavy. I have carried heavier. I’m just a Revolver nut and can’t get enough of this new Taurus. The action is perfect for me and it shot very well at the Range. I took off the smaller factory grips and added Hogue Mono Grips.
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You must have gone to a slow school. No GTO's, no GTX's? 440 Wedge rules. Hemi's 2nd. place.
No Sir, we had those... JUST no Debate.
A friend of mine (His dad owned small chain of family (EARLS) markets)
anyway, John had a 1st year GTO 1964 - Maroone on Black, 4 on the floor, 389 CID
NOBODY debated HIM
A girl I dated had Renault - Hahaahaha
I had Dodge A100 window van 318 V8 Auto , with surfboards
My Graphic teacher has AC Cobra 427 ....by God the real deal no KIT !
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Like you, I have two entirely different styles of weapons for concealed carry, with one being a .38 Special and the other being a .380 ACP. I will take exception to your statement that with the proper ammunition, the choice between the two calibers is a toss-up. I disagree, believing that with proper ammo, the .38 will beat the .380 everyday, and that's not even considering the effectiveness of +P ammo. However, concealability and ammo capacity can make a difference. I carry a Model 36, 2" barrel, loaded with Speer 135grain, +P Short Barrel ammo. That goes in a pocket holster in my right pocket, with two speed-strips in the left pocket, for a total of 15 rounds. I don't like striker-fired pistols (just a personal preference). So, sometimes I carry an RIA Baby Rock, 1911 super-compact .380 with eight rounds of Hornady 110 grain Critical Defense ammo in a pocket holster (or IWB holster depending on how I dress), with two magazines in the left pocket for a total of 22 rounds. I do not feel undergunned regardless of which weapon I choose.
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It's really what you are comfortable with and as one person said, practice practice practice. I know a guy who carries every week in church, but he never goes to the range. I am at the range weekly. But I was trained for 20 years in the military to have "Muscle Memory". You do not want to be in a bad spot having to use your weapon and have to "think" about what to do. You just need to react! Personally, I can not stand the feel of a J-Frame in my hands. Because of this I migrated over to the Glock. First because of their reputation for reliability. Then because the ease of shooting. I have never shot a G42. I have sot a G25 and it ran flawlessly and very comfortable. My wife loved it and she hates shooting anything that has the slightest recoil. My G19 included and it has aftermarket Tungsten Guiderod. I guess you could call me a Glock Fan Boy if it makes you feel better. I've said this in other posts. Handguns are a personal thing. What works for me may not work for you. What works for you may not work for me. Pick the one that works for you and the h*ll with what others say. Again, get to the range often!
I carry both revolvers and semi autos, and when small size matters that includes J frames and .380s.
But...care needs to be taken to ensure a hollow point will perform well in both .38 Special and .380 ACP, particularly in short barrels.
.380 ACP takes a big hit in velocity as barrel lengths get shorter, far more of a hit than 9mm Luger. Similarly, a 2" .38 won't produce the same velocity as a 4".
In general most hollow points designed for .380 ACP that will both expand and penetrate 12+ inches (90 gr XTPs, 90 gr Gold Dots, 90 gr V-Crowns) need a muzzle velocity of at least 1000-1050 fps for reliable performance and adequate pentration.
Consequently, if I carry a .380 ACP it iss far more likely to be a 3.8" Beretta or a 4" Baby Rock, than a 2.75" Kimber Micro or 2.7" Sig 238. At 3.2" the Glock 42 falls on the short side of the aisle.
The longer barrels will give a solid 1025-1050 fps with reliable expansion and 12-13" penetration. The short barrels top out around 950-975 fps and that is just not quite enough.
Similarly, .38 Special loads that do well in a 4" revolver often don't impress in a 2" revolver. You can get by with a bit less veliocity in the .38 Special hollow points but in my personal experience you better have 900-925 fps, regardless of brand. In a 2" barrel that means .38+P, and then at least check to confirm your velocity with a chronograph if you cant do gel testing.
A 3" barrel really helps, and it's the sweet spot in my opinion for a concealed carry revolver. (For .357 Mag you really need a 3" barrel for enough ballistic efficiency to exceed .38+P velocities by enough to matter.)
But...care needs to be taken to ensure a hollow point will perform well in both .38 Special and .380 ACP, particularly in short barrels.
.380 ACP takes a big hit in velocity as barrel lengths get shorter, far more of a hit than 9mm Luger. Similarly, a 2" .38 won't produce the same velocity as a 4".
In general most hollow points designed for .380 ACP that will both expand and penetrate 12+ inches (90 gr XTPs, 90 gr Gold Dots, 90 gr V-Crowns) need a muzzle velocity of at least 1000-1050 fps for reliable performance and adequate pentration.
Consequently, if I carry a .380 ACP it iss far more likely to be a 3.8" Beretta or a 4" Baby Rock, than a 2.75" Kimber Micro or 2.7" Sig 238. At 3.2" the Glock 42 falls on the short side of the aisle.
The longer barrels will give a solid 1025-1050 fps with reliable expansion and 12-13" penetration. The short barrels top out around 950-975 fps and that is just not quite enough.
Similarly, .38 Special loads that do well in a 4" revolver often don't impress in a 2" revolver. You can get by with a bit less veliocity in the .38 Special hollow points but in my personal experience you better have 900-925 fps, regardless of brand. In a 2" barrel that means .38+P, and then at least check to confirm your velocity with a chronograph if you cant do gel testing.
A 3" barrel really helps, and it's the sweet spot in my opinion for a concealed carry revolver. (For .357 Mag you really need a 3" barrel for enough ballistic efficiency to exceed .38+P velocities by enough to matter.)
Howdy BB57! Always enjoy your input.I carry both revolvers and semi autos, and when small size matters that includes J frames and .380s.
But...care needs to be taken to ensure a hollow point will perform well in both .38 Special and .380 ACP, particularly in short barrels.
.380 ACP takes a big hit in velocity as barrel lengths get shorter, far more of a hit than 9mm Luger. Similarly, a 2" .38 won't produce the same velocity as a 4".
In general most hollow points designed for .380 ACP that will both expand and penetrate 12+ inches (90 gr XTPs, 90 gr Gold Dots, 90 gr V-Crowns) need a muzzle velocity of at least 1000-1050 fps for reliable performance and adequate pentration.
Consequently, if I carry a .380 ACP it iss far more likely to be a 3.8" Beretta or a 4" Baby Rock, than a 2.75" Kimber Micro or 2.7" Sig 238. At 3.2" the Glock 42 falls on the short side of the aisle.
The longer barrels will give a solid 1025-1050 fps with reliable expansion and 12-13" penetration. The short barrels top out around 950-975 fps and that is just not quite enough.
Similarly, .38 Special loads that do well in a 4" revolver often don't impress in a 2" revolver. You can get by with a bit less veliocity in the .38 Special hollow points but in my personal experience you better have 900-925 fps, regardless of brand. In a 2" barrel that means .38+P, and then at least check to confirm your velocity with a chronograph if you cant do gel testing.
A 3" barrel really helps, and it's the sweet spot in my opinion for a concealed carry revolver. (For .357 Mag you really need a 3" barrel for enough ballistic efficiency to exceed .38+P velocities by enough to matter.)
About .380ACP velocity.
I run the Cor Bon 380+p, which is only so labeled by them on the later boxes.
It makes 1000fps or from my Colt Mustang.
Because it expands so violently, it always under penetrates.
However, the slower Federal Hydra-Shok from that gun and from a Glock 42 does not under penetrate 12 inches, and never fails to expand. My guess is this is merely happenstance. From a longer barrel you would see the under penetration usual with similar HP projectiles.
Your thought?
BrianD
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