My target hand ejector

[greenwellg]

Serial # 474995 It has target sights, trigger and grooved frame in front and back of the grips. a fairly decent job where the grips leave it exposed. I know it has been refinished but it seems to be a fairly decent job. No marks obliterated everything is legible but the typical roll mark ridges are smoothed out. Bore and action parts are as new. I have not shot it yet.
My guess is it would be possible that this was done by S&W at some time after it was made, or it started out as a target model and was refinished some time after that. Grips are not numbered so they may have been added later in life. I think my out the door cost was around $400. Originally built in 1922-3 by my research.

 

[wheelgun610]

Do you have any pics of the whole gun? If it was reworked or refinished by S&W, it would be marked with a date code on the left side of the grip frame with a 3 or 4 digit date code, and would most likely have a star stamped on the butt near the serial number.

 

[greenwellg]

I'll get some pics today. Don't see any markings indicating it was redone by S&W. I have not shot it and previously inquired about it being OK to use some +P ammo I have accumulated. It's the latest 38 special I own with the exception of a Model 36 (1964) that I do not want to shoot +P ammo in that gun. I have an older HE that was made around 1907, last patent date was 1901, not shooting anything but standard velocity in that one if I even shoot it.

 

[greenwellg]

More photos. No indication it was worked on by S&W. I was wondering if there were additional patent dates between the ones on this pistol versus the Dec of 1901 date on my other earlier pistol.

 

[wheelgun610]

Unless you're in a life and death situation, with no other option, there's really no good reason to fire +P ammo in that gun. Personally, I don't even shoot any jacketed ammo in my mid-30s vintage .38 Target.

 

[M5741]

Wow, that a really nice piece. No need to soup it up. Enjoy it for what it was meant to be.

 

[mrcvs]

Serial # 474995 It has target sights, trigger and grooved frame in front and back of the grips. a fairly decent job where the grips leave it exposed. I know it has been refinished but it seems to be a fairly decent job. No marks obliterated everything is legible but the typical roll mark ridges are smoothed out. Bore and action parts are as new. I have not shot it yet.
My guess is it would be possible that this was done by S&W at some time after it was made, or it started out as a target model and was refinished some time after that. Grips are not numbered so they may have been added later in life. I think my out the door cost was around $400. Originally built in 1922-3 by my research.View attachment 784674View attachment 784675

Yes, stocks are not original to this revolver as those with medallions were phased out about 1920. Yours should have convex non medallion stocks.

 

[wheelgun610]

... I know it has been refinished but it seems to be a fairly decent job. No marks obliterated everything is legible but the typical roll mark ridges are smoothed out...

After re-reading your original post, and looking at the photos you added, I don't see any indication that that gun has been refinished. Looks 100% original to me. The reason you're not seeing any "ridges" around the rollmarks is because the rollmarks were applied before the gun was polished. The polishing operation effectively removes those 'ridges'.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Nice Gun! One I would like to have.
I would shoot Ball ammo in it sparingly, clean and oil, put it back in the safe.

 

[fiasconva]

Nice old Smith! Getcha some standard velocity 158 gr LRN or some 148 gr wadcutters and you're good to go. You'll love its accuracy.

 

[greenwellg]

Looking at this pistol I see two things that make me think it was refinished. The knob on the extractor and the depth of the roll markings on the patent dates and on both sides of the barrel.

 

[wheelgun610]

Looking at this pistol I see two things that make me think it was refinished. The knob on the extractor and the depth of the roll markings on the patent dates and on both sides of the barrel.

That's obviously not the same gun we were originally discussing, but again, I don't see any signs of refinishing. The ejector rod knob was case hardened, and wasn't blued on the earlier ones, and later on, they were blued, but the bluing was removed from the area that makes contact with the locking plunger. You'll see some slight variation in the depth of the rollmarks over the years, and even on guns from the same vintage and production batch. The polishing was done by hand, and no two people have the same 'touch'. Even with the same person polishing a dozen or more guns from a batch, there would be some visible variation in how the rollmarks looked.

 

[Leslie Sapp]

It may be refinished, but it would fool me.
Just to prove I'm not very knowledgeable in these matters, I'll offer you your money back on it!

 

[glowe]

OK, first the serial number indicates a 1924 ship date, which is the era of the blued mushroom shaped ejector rod knob. The patent date 1914 is appropriate for a 38 Military & Police, 4th Change. It is, however, 4 years after the gold medallion stocks were discontinued. I am convinced that gun is original factory, especially since there are no date marks for a factory return.

 

[greenwellg]

I actually bid $525 on the gun and thanks wheelgun 610, the ejector knob is exactly as you described with the surface in front polished. The auction comission was 10% and transfer fee was $3 for all 3 guns. Total state tax was $84.54 for all 3. These 3 guns were bought at an auction in Moneta Va. I bid $525 on the gun in this thread and the same on a K22 Masterpiece serial # 323372 (no model number) that I brought home with me. Serail #90643 was the one shown in the comparison photo. I mistakenly thought the knob on this gun would match the earlier one.
I stand corrected on the refinish belief. Where I live close to the coast guns need to be kept inside with AC to preserve the condition.
Tickled that it is original finish.
Thanks everyone for the kind words.
Most of the other auctions I look at occasionally are 20% plus.

 

[wheelgun610]

Any time I suspect a refinish, the first things I look at are the ends of the two pins circled in the picture below. Even on many factory refinished guns, I've seen the tips of those pins polished flat. The fact that they're still rounded tells me neither of the OP's guns are refinished - either by S&W or anyone else.
The second gun being discussed in this post is the older of the two, and at the time it was made, they didn't polish the trigger pivot stud flush with the frame. That's why the two guns look different in that area.

 

[wheelgun610]

... I stand corrected on the refinish belief...

Well, you sure came to the right place to learn about all those things. There's a wealth of collective knowledge here that you won't find anywhere else. Being retired after many years in firearms manufacturing has taught me a thing or two. I didn't work for S&W, but there are similarities in how many things are done. And having been a member of this forum for nearly two dozen years, I've learned a lot of things specific to S&W revolvers.

 

[greenwellg]

I was very knowledgeable of the rifles of Finland of which the civil guard had to purchase their own weapons. I had one of the rarest of civil guard weapons a JAPANESE 1905 model in 6.5 that was used by the Finnish guard and it was marked as owned by a member with his unit location. Finland was the ONLY country that paid the USA back the money we loaned them in WW2. I could tell the difference between models by only seeing the front sight. I love to learn new things, but sadly I am very late to the party as far as some here who have collected S&W for decades. I knew about the Rollin White bored through cylinder patents and I was a range officer at Clark Brothers in Warrenton Va when I bought a absolutely perfect 44 Russian nickel DA revolver (long gone). It was 1982 and I got to pick over any trade INS on Sunday at closing.
Over the time I worked there I picked up enough brass to fill a 55 gallon drum, most of it new ammo.
I still have a Westinghouse made Model 91 Russian rifle that never left the US. The govt of Russia, then going through the revolution refused to honor the contract. The US govt bailed out Remington and Westinghouse and bought the rifles for $30 each then sold them for $3 each of the next decades.

 

[mikepriwer]

Wheelgun610

Regarding the two sideplate studs having either rounded or flattened ends, that is not always a good indicator of a refinish, or not. Dave Chicoine refinished lots and lots of guns, and he told me that, like the factory, he would temporarily replace those studs with another set. This would keep the original studs from being flattened, during the filing and polishing work. The original studs, or a new set, would be put back after the bluing was completed.

Roy Jinks told me, years ago, that the factory could refinish a gun and no one could tell, which is a testament to how good those fellows were.

Without the obvious signs of a refinish - studs polished flat and/or dished stud threads - it's not always possible to tell if a gun has been refinished.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[wheelgun610]

Without the obvious signs of a refinish - studs polished flat and/or dished stud threads - it's not always possible to tell if a gun has been refinished.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Agreed Mike. And I've seen several of those factory refinished guns with studs that still retained the radius on the exposed ends. I'm sure there was a time when S&W's service department still had parts on hand to replace those if necessary, but I believe that after those parts got used up they started polishing them flush. And, a lot of small shops who refinished them had no idea those studs were threaded - and/or they just didn't have the correct spanner to remove them.
We also know that some point, the factory started polishing the trigger studs flush with the frame to keep them from rubbing on the cylinder when it was opened. I think it was prior to maybe 1920 when that occurred.

Regards,
Mark Gallaher