Heavy Clothing Stops .38 Wadcutter!

[Phenix]

Not sure if this video will load. Basically, wadcutters only went about 5 inches into gel when going through heavy clothes. Whereas a Lead Round Nose bullet still had adequate penetration (12 inches+). I guess the clothing drags along with the WC slowing down the bullet.

I was under the impression a WC would be a good winter carry due to penetration protentional. Guess I was wrong. Although the amount of clothing used in the test may have been overkill.

I wonder how some of the top performing HP ammo would perform under the same conditions.

Sounds like a 158gr. LRN might be a better carry ammo in winter heavy coat conditions. Wonder if a SWC would do the same?

Do we know details about specifics such as:
* hollow based wadcutter or solid
* hard or soft lead
* velocity

12" of penetration is nice, but not a requirement for self defense.
If somebody sticks a bullet of any kind 5" into MY body, I am going to immediately find another place to be, if I'm able to.

 

[Phenix]

A 9mm hollow point fired from an S&W 459 passed through Platt's right upper arm and struck his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Both of their bodies were drug-free at the time of their deaths. The autopsy also found that Platt's right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood. Of his many gunshot wounds, this wound was the primary one responsible for his eventual death. It took him five minutes to bleed out, during which, he killed 2 FBI agents and wounded several more.

That leads me to believe that five inches of penetration from a wadcutter being enough to conclusively end a fight as overly optimistic.

Blunders on the part of some of the agents were partly responsible for the unhappy outcome.

 

[Eddietruett]

I've only seen them used by a few guys for bowling pin shoots years ago. They loaded them in .357 cases because of the overall length. Full WC design. They claimed they got about 1000 fps with them. Don't know if that was actually tested or their guess.

I have chronographed my 230 WC at 1050 fps avg with a 3" barrel.

 

[Eddietruett]

Do we know details about specifics such as:
* hollow based wadcutter or solid
* hard or soft lead
* velocity

12" of penetration is nice, but not a requirement for self defense.
If somebody sticks a bullet of any kind 5" into MY body, I am going to immediately find another place to be, if I'm able to.

The wadcutter pictured above is a 230gr solid. Hard cast BNH 16. Only time I chronograpded it was with a 3" k frame. Average of 5 shots was 1050fps. It will penetrate a treated 4x4 post fired at 10'.
I have fired 8-10 out of a 2" Model 60 but didn't have a chronograph available. It's not recreational but I don't think penetration would be a concern. I would not try these in an alloy frame. I'm sure long term use even in a steel j frame would bring premature wear, but that was never a concern.

 

[DRankin]

Not sure if this video will load. Basically, wadcutters only went about 5 inches into gel when going through heavy clothes. Whereas a Lead Round Nose bullet still had adequate penetration (12 inches+). I guess the clothing drags along with the WC slowing down the bullet.

I was under the impression a WC would be a good winter carry due to penetration protentional. Guess I was wrong. Although the amount of clothing used in the test may have been overkill.

I wonder how some of the top performing HP ammo would perform under the same conditions.

Sounds like a 158gr. LRN might be a better carry ammo in winter heavy coat conditions. Wonder if a SWC would do the same?

Finally took a few minutes to look at the video.

So many problems....

He just put a wad of textiles up there to shoot through and had no idea how many layers he used. Then he states that it was certainly more layers than he had ever worn, and this from a guy wearing a down coat in what is clearly a winter environment.

So I guess that if you have to shoot a brazen criminal on his way to the laundromat holding a bag of soiled clothing.......

Then he uses a puny target wadcutter load that has huge velocity swings out of his gun. Was that the ammo or his out-of-tolerance revolver?

Whichever, it leads me to suspect the low penetration may well be a problem with the launcher, not the missile.

I lived in Alaska for a long time. I dressed like he dressed in the video.

Shoot through three layers of cotton or wool topped with a fluffy jacket, that would be typical winter clothing.

And use a Buffalo Bore or Underwood full wadcutter out of a properly machined and fitted 2" revolver.............. then tell me you only got 5 inches of penetration.

Just Sayin'

 

[DRankin]

Ok..... a bit more.

Look at what Lucky Gunner got through 4 layers of clothing.



They didn't specify, but it appears to be heavy denim.




This is more believable.

 

[Drm50]

I never shot a large animal with 38 WCs but did one deer with a 45 Lyman Button Nose 242gr WC, tacking along 750fps.
Bullet 20:1 - lead/ tin. Had one 25-5 tuned for 250gr RNFP at 850fps, traditional load and specifically for deer. Grabbed wrong case. Got to woods I had gun tuned for the WCs. As luck would have, or bad luck for deer a 150lb doe stood up at 25-30yds right in front of me. Classic profile, through & through didn't hit bone. Deer went down and came right back up like it was on a spring. It bounded about 20 yds squirting out blood until it hit a tree head on at warp speed. It hit the ground DOA. It had been running dead bullet nicked lungs high, that's all.
There is always an outrider that could happen, the rest of the time normal loading work well on thin skinned game.

 

[rockquarry]

How many different ways can you discuss this old topic?

 

[jimmyj]

I train face/head/crotch shots at self defense distances (0-7yards). regardless caliber or ammo.

 

[Phenix]

I train face/head shots at self defense distances (0-7yards). regardless caliber or ammo.

The head can be a tricky target in real life.

 

[biku324]

I really try hard not to shoot anyone.

 

[jimmyj]

The head can be a tricky target in real life.

or Crotch

 

[Rule3]

How many different ways can you discuss this old topic?

No kidding, some guy on BoobTube.
Wadcutters are for target shooting. So much better ammo out there.

 

[rockquarry]

No kidding, some guy on BoobTube.
Wadcutters are for target shooting. So much better ammo out there.

Many don't know that; hence the YouDupe believers.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I, my extended family and friends are avid YouTube users. It is far, far more helpful than not.

The web is what you make of it.

 

[Phenix]

The wadcutter pictured above is a 230gr solid. Hard cast BNH 16. Only time I chronograpded it was with a 3" k frame. Average of 5 shots was 1050fps. It will penetrate a treated 4x4 post fired at 10'.
I have fired 8-10 out of a 2" Model 60 but didn't have a chronograph available. It's not recreational but I don't think penetration would be a concern. I would not try these in an alloy frame. I'm sure long term use even in a steel j frame would bring premature wear, but that was never a concern.

You fired a 230 wadcutter out of a .38/.357 case in a K frame revolver?
Did 't know they made them that heavy in .38.

 

[rockquarry]

You fired a 230 wadcutter out of a .38/.357 case in a K frame revolver?
Did 't know they made them that heavy in .38.

Too much weight for a .38 if you expect anything close to a decent velocity. How's accuracy?

 

[K Frame Keith]

Load something lightly enough and it will not penetrate. Anecdotal reports are inherently flawed. Korea vets claimed (anecdotally) that the winter clothing worn by chi-coms stopped M1 carbine rounds, a round with 967 foot pounds of muzzle energy at 1990 fps. God bless them for their service and sacrifice but they were probably missing the target.

 

[Eddietruett]

Too much weight for a .38 if you expect anything close to a decent velocity. How's accuracy?

I think 1000fps for a 230gr bullet Is pretty decent. 25% more than 230 ball in a 45acp and will penetrate a treated 4x4. In my opinion that's way beyond decent. Accuracy? Head shots all day long at 10-15 yards. Plenty good for self defense.

 

[Eddietruett]

You fired a 230 wadcutter out of a .38/.357 case in a K frame revolver?
Did 't know they made them that heavy in .38.

I have fired the 230 we in a j frame. That's what we developed it for, a j frame self defense round. It is no fun to shoot and I'm sure prolong use in a j frame would cause premature wear and loosening of the gun, but that wasn't a consideration. If I need it, I'm worried about 5 shots. Once developed, I have fired 6-7 rounds through a model 60. Gun is still tight as new. If any more are fired, it will be because my ass is in a bind.