145 Grain Winchester Silver Tips in Model 19?

[aterry33]

Anyone have any experience with this load in K-Frame magnums? I have a 1961 Model 19. Curious as to whether it would be any worse on the gun than 158 grain stuff.

Someone said the Model 19 was originally designed around the 145-grain round? I've never been sure about that..

 

[Steve C]

The only ammo that's been a problem in the K frame .357's is the 125gr full power loads (1,450 fps from a 4"). Shoot other bullet weights without worry.

 

[Erich]

I carry 145-gr STHPs in my 65-5 for defense against people . . . in town. What a great round this is!

 

[aterry33]

I have heard great things about this load. Figured it would be fine in a K-Frame, but just wanted to make sure.

 

[Spotteddog]

Great load!
Now I just wish I could find some?

 

[The Rabbi]

This is the ideal load in the 19 snub. I shoot it in mine. Recoil and flash very manageable.

 

[flop-shank]

The 145 gr. Silvertip is arguably the best .357 load that could be used in a K frame. It would certainly be on my short list.

 

[snw19_357]

+1 to what everyone else has said!

I have 145gr Silvertips in my 19 and 125gr JHPs in my N-frames. The 145gr Silvertips are real nice out of an N-frame too.

 

[Texas Star]

Whoever told you that the Model 19 was designed around this load is full of what Skeeter Skelton used to call, "condensed apple pie." The 145 Grain Silvertip was produced LONG after the M-19 was introduced.

As it happens, I researched K-magnum ammo extensively for a magazine article. In my capacity as a gun writer, I had access to engineers and others not available to consumers. They told me that there should be little difference in durability between the 140-145 grain loads and the 158 grain ones.

However, they knew of no specific tests to prove this. They were just estimating, based on the characteristics of the cartridges. They UNIFORMLY agreed that the hot 125 grain loads were bad for the guns.

Keep in mind that the M-19 and its peers were never meant for routine use with full magnum loads, of ANY type. They will certainly endure better with the 140-158 grain ones, but all magnum use should be limited. Once you know where the gun is shooting with your preferred load, you need only occasionally practice with it, and use full loads just for defense and hunting or other outdoor applications that require .357 power levels.

No one spelled it out, but I got the feeling that .357 use in K-frame Magnums should be about 10-15% of the total rounds fired in them.

I hope that helps. Yours is a common question.

I fire occasional .357 ammo in my M-66-3, using a Ruger GP-100 for most .357 use. I love that M-66, but I acknowledge that it isn't going to last when fired with magnum ammo as long as will larger-framed guns. But how many .357s do you really need to fire?

T-Star

 

[BreakerDan]

Anyone have any experience with this load in K-Frame magnums? I have a 1961 Model 19. Curious as to whether it would be any worse on the gun than 158 grain stuff.

Someone said the Model 19 was originally designed around the 145-grain round? I've never been sure about that..

As TX Star told you, the M19 was not designed around the 145 gr load.
Silvertip pistol ctgs are to my knowledge the first 145gr load and they came out in
the 1980s. The standard 357ctg during the 1950s was the 158 LSWC and would have been the round most likely used in the first m19s. There were some 158 JSP rounds in the 60-early 70s. The 125gr loads were a later improvement over the loads mentioned.

The K frame is perfectly capable of handling any factory 357 round. I shoot the 145
Silvertip from my early 60s M19. It is extremely accurate and easy to control. Expansion
from the Silvertip is excellent and so is the muzzle flash. However, I put a lot of 125s through it too. You have to shoot 1000s and 1000s of 125s to hurt the K frame in most cases but they certainly accelerate the wear and tear. This is similar to the whole +P in a j fame 38 issue or pre war K frame.

I think the Silvertip 357 is in the top 3 rounds in the caliber.

 

[GatorFarmer]

I still retain a Model 19 (-3), mainly because I feel that it a gun that one simply should have. It's my second one, after I foolishly traded away a nice nickel 19-2 years ago.

However, even in that nickel 19-2, I used Remington 125 gr JHPs. While I generally like heavier bullets, this was one of those cases where I went with the bulk of accumulated anecdotal information to suggest that these rounds simply worked, and worked very well, as a defensive offering.

My 19-2 did need minor repairs at one point, which cost me all of 25 dollars.

I don't use my 19-3 extensively, since I can get essentially the same performance out of my P229R in .357 Sig (with a hot loading), however if I were to regularly carry if for defense, I'd use 125 gr ammunition and simply dispose of the gun, or turn it into a paperweight, if it wore out or suffered irreversible wear/damage.

I'm not fond of the idea of potentially compromising the utility of a firearm to extend its life. All carry guns, by their nature, are disposable items.

 

[Texas Star]

As TX Star told you, the M19 was not designed around the 145 gr load.
Silvertip pistol ctgs are to my knowledge the first 145gr load and they came out in
the 1980s. The standard 357ctg during the 1950s was the 158 LSWC and would have been the round most likely used in the first m19s. There were some 158 JSP rounds in the 60-early 70s. The 125gr loads were a later improvement over the loads mentioned.

The K frame is perfectly capable of handling any factory 357 round. I shoot the 145
Silvertip from my early 60s M19. It is extremely accurate and easy to control. Expansion
from the Silvertip is excellent and so is the muzzle flash. However, I put a lot of 125s through it too. You have to shoot 1000s and 1000s of 125s to hurt the K frame in most cases but they certainly accelerate the wear and tear. This is similar to the whole +P in a j fame 38 issue or pre war K frame.

I think the Silvertip 357 is in the top 3 rounds in the caliber.

Dan-

Good post. But the top three rounds in .357 depend on what you're trying to accomplish. The ideal load for humans not protected by barricades or heavy clothing and the load you want if you might be attacked by a bear or a crocodile aren't the same. One has to balance penetration vs. expansion and pick according to need. But if I could ever find any, I'd sure use that 145 grain Silvertip for men, coyotes, and most other needs not requiring especially deep penetration.

Actually, I sometimes think that too much is made of choosing the ultimate load for the purpose. Most full power .357 rounds over 110 grains would probably suffice for 90% of what a .357 might logically be expected to do. For what it's worth, I usually load 158 grain Hydra-Shoks, partly because I think they're a good, all-round choice, and partially because I have some!

T-Star

 

[BreakerDan]

T Star,

I agree that it depends on the purpose.
My top three 357 ctgs for my purposes are:

158 or 173 gr Keith semi wadcutter for feral hogs
125gr Rem or Federal for all around up to hogs
145 Silvertip for LE duty round in my S&W M28 N Frame

I think the 158 Hydra Shock is an excellent round. I know some LEOs who swear by Hydra Shock even though newer bullet designs exist. They seem to be really accurate.
The 145 Silvertip is extremely hard to find and it has taken me years to stockpile 3 boxes of them. I do agree that any load above 110gr will do what most people do with a 357 unless you go for bear. Few cartridges can be so versatile as the 357 mag since you can go from 110-200 grains or higher.

To me it seems hard to beat the old 158 LSWC for field use-non self defense. It smacks hogs harder than heavy hollowpoints even when the hp goes all the way through. The old 158 Remington load seems like a cannon even in my Nframe.

 

[flop-shank]

The .357 mag. is a hard cartridge to screw up. I would use 110 gr. JHPs with confidence, although they might tend to be a little shallow in penetration.

 

[sigp220.45]

For many years, the 145 grain .357 Silvertip was the FBI issued Magnum load, during the time when the great Model 13 was the standard issue revolver. Agents were supposed to carry the .38 +P LSWCHP, later the 147 grain +P+ Hydra-Shok, but a lot of guys squirreled away the Silvertips and carried them anyway. (We were supposed to get special permission to load up with Magnums.)

A friend of mine shot a guy in the elbow with one, with spectacular results.

My bump in the night gun is a revolver, and its loaded with Silvertips.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I'm sporting the Speer 125 grain Gold Dot loading now in my Model 27, but I have a good amount of the Silvertips squirreled away, and I'm thinking of going back to those.

 

[Erich]

A friend of mine shot a guy in the elbow with one, with spectacular results.

Yowtch!

 

[681ismyfavorite]

the 125 grain full power loads are best used in guns that dont have a compromised forcing cone like the K frames do.

the heavier and slower rounds should be o.k. for extended use.

 

[Magnum 7mm]

I have used the Winchester 145 grain Silvertip load in all of my 357 magnum revolvers (S&W, Colt, Ruger)since the late 80's. They are as accurate or more accurate than all other 357 loads I have tried. I even killed a wild boar with a Model 66 back in 89. The Silvertips should work great if you ever need them. It's the ONLY load I use in 357. Good luck finding them though. Sportsman's Guide had some the other day, but they didn't last long. I've got 6-50 round boxes. If the shelf life of ammo is 40+ years, I'll be 91+ years old before I need some more.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I'll admit that I like the 145 grain load, and although I've only had "range time" with it, it shoots well enough that I've taken it in the woods with me many times in a Model 19 with six inch tube.

What got me "turned on" to them was back in the 1980's when the Georgia State Patrol was still carrying stainless S&W 66's (before they went to the 4505/4506) and the stories of the "effectiveness" by many officers that had to use it. However, one night an officer emptied a cylinder into a very portly man hopped up on PCP who was on top of him- and it didn't even faze the assailant (as the story was relayed to me). That night was the end of issue of the Silvertip ammunition to the GSP...so I am told.

I fathom that no hollowpoint ammunition may work as designed if the barrel is placed directly.