10mm Auto For Bear Defense

A charging Bear would be stopped with confidence by nothing less than a mack truck probably. A casual bear not paying attention to you, could easily be dispatched with a hand cannon. The idea is, your bear will be charging you. For that purpose you would not want less than A 12GA. With Slugs in 3" MAG. But when that Shotgun gets jammed, or when the bear gets on top, you transition to that hand CANNON. You point it at the bear the best you can and you resume until your slide locks back. Compliments of Glock 20. With Gold Dot bullets. 180grain With your FPS at 1200 or more.. That is what I'd feel better about. Confidence is important for performance. But if you think you are going to stand there and get good placement with a charging bear, you are failing to take into account your adrenaline. You will be shaking like a polaroid picture. And your buddy will take a picture snap shot of you getting mounted by the bear and the rest of whoever see's those snaps will feel sorry for you.

Sprefix said:

This guy lives just outside of Soldotna,Alaska

Have I got a story for you guys!


King salmon season is over, and since I had a day off before silvers start, I thought I would go for a walk! This occurred at 11:16 am this morning (Sunday), just 2/10 of a mile from my house, ON OUR ROAD while walking
my dogs (trying to get in shape for hunting season, ironically!) For the record, this is in a residential area - not back in the woods, no bow hunting, no stealth occurring...

I heard a twig snap, and looked back...full on charge - a huge brownie, ears back, head low and motorin' full speed! Came with zero warning; no Woof, no popping of the teeth, no standing up, nothing like what you think or see on TV! It charged from less than 20 yards and was on me in About one-second! Totally surreal - I just started shooting in the general direction, and praise God that my second shot (or was it my third?) rolled him at 5 feet and he skidded to a stop 10 feet BEYOND where I was shooting from. I actually sidestepped him and fell over backwards on the last shot, and his momentum carried him to a stop past where I fired my first shot!

It was a prehistoric old boar - no teeth, no fat-weighed between 900-1000 lbs and took five men to DRAG it onto a tilt-bed trailer! Big bear - its paw measured out at about a 9 1/2 footer!

Never-ever-thought "it" would happen to me! It's always some other smuck, right? Well, no bull- I am still high on adrenaline, with my gut in a Knot. Feels like I did 10000 crunches without stopping! Almost puked for an hour after, had the burps and couldn't even stand up as the troopers conducted their investigation! Totally wiped me out - can't even put that feeling into words, by far the most emotion I have ever felt at once!

No doubt that God was with me, as I brought my Ruger .454 Casull (and some "hot" 350 grain solids) just for the heck of it, and managed to Draw and snap shoot (pointed, never even aimed!) from the hip! Total luck shot!

All I can say is Praise God for my safety and for choosing to leave the wife and kids at home on this walk! Got a charter tomorrow, so gonna TRY to get some sleep now!

Talk to ya soon, -Greg

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here are the pics from this story--have seen the story with accompanying pics on another forum.





A Glock 10mm with the stock barrel--no way--change the barrel to use heavy cast bullets--MAYBE. I think this topic has been covered more times on more forums than 9mm vs. .45acp. People need to realize these big bears can take a considerable amount of lead unless you hit them directly in the brain. That isn't always easy if they are charging you.

I think wayyyy too many city slickers take what these animals can do to you for granted and rely wayyyy too much on calibers that were designed to put down a 170 to 200lb human with soft skin and light bone, instead of a 800 to 1200lb thick hided, heavy muscle & boned animal. I think the reason many of them want to rely on these smaller guns is that is what they have at the moment and are either unwilling to pony up for a proper caliber or have themselves or someone else has convinced them that they could never handle a large magnum revolver.

The truth is all but the most feeble can learn to handle one--some guns may need a change in grips-and all of them need to be practiced with, just like any other gun. None of them are particularly a joy to shoot--but that isn't the point. You carry a large magnum gun to hopefully save your hide. If a person is going to carry a smaller gun then they should also be carrying bear pepper spray-it might have a better effect.

I'd rather have a revolver. More reliable, even than a Glock.

.454 Cas

To be honest. A small woman can not handle the kick of .454 Cas it's just too powerful a cartridge. All I can say, is no way, would this lady be able to hold on. And or fire it twice. She would test fire it once and never shoot it again.

10mm bear defense

180 grain Gold Dot bullets hand loaded with Blue Dot powder to it's almost max load but not compressed, does not kick much harder than a regular .40S&W, almost that is, I'd give it something like 10.5 grains of Blue Dot or less, this should give the velocity of the round a little more than 1200FPS on average probably like 1220, again, double check the book, some max load data shows 10.5 grains of Blue Dot for Max load for 180grain JHP, SO, I'd say that the controllability and firepower and stopping power would be a perfect match for a woman or small person, for bear defense, but don't use compact version of the glock 10mm, use the full size version that is G20, it's just as powerful as a .357 MAG, with almost three times the firepower, and a larger grain bullet that penetrates, plus you have extra mags, if you need to reload, get behind tree, climb tree, and reload, it's way faster than reloading a wheel gun, also I examined the case after fireing this load and the case was showing no signs of over pressure or damage or cracking, I'd say this is a great load for penetration and stopping power of a large animal. My Girl Friend; Fired this load rappiddly with 100% hits on man size target, so I'm confident this would be a great, girls gun. But the catch is you have to hand load this load.

10mm bear defense

Did some research on Gold Dot, turns out that bullet is the first to actually retain it's mass at 95% on average, some studies show 100% mass retention in 10% ballistic gellatin, the best retention of mass of any bullet since 1965, this is the first of it's kind, where the jacket and the core work as one, as they are bonded together, the bond between the jacket and the core is stronger than the bond lead has to itself, so it is going to penetrate and not loose it's jacket or have missiles, meaning that it is more accurate by far, hits harder, mushrooms faster and penetrates deeper for a hollow point, that should do the trick with heavy hide, muscle, bone, and the round is very reliable feed wise, for the 10mm, and turns out, if you have a 200 grain bullet traveling at 1000 fps, that was the minimum given by a particular bear hunter expert, the 10mm will push a 200 grain slug 1,100 fps, if you use blue dot. The more research I do the more I like 10mm.

I had a custome license plate border on an Acura that displayed my 10mm preference. Some stranger in a parking lot once asked me if I was "....hunting elephants with that?".

West Yellowstone, MT

I'm amused whenever I read these "handguns for bear" threads, same as the elk threads on some of the hunting forums.

Anyway...If any of you ever get near West Yellowstone Montana absolutely visit the Grizzly Interpritive Center. You will be within twelve feet of the big coastal grizzly's and Kodiaks.

Take a look at those guys up close..then rethink any ideas of using a pistol on them.

FN in MT

do not use hollow points

I would suggest against ANY hollow points in 10mm (for bear) and the Gold Dot is no execption.

100% weight retention does not equate to the same penetration as a non expanding bullet. A hollow point is designed to expand and expose a larger frontal area. That larger exposed area causes it to slow down (shed energy) faster, creating the vauted temporal cavity. The faster it slows down the shallower the penetration. Hollow points actually have less penetration when driven faster, until you reach a point where you exceed the energy necessary to fully expand the bullet, then penetration begins to creep back up as long as the bullet holds together.

I would suggest 200 gr FMJ loaded to reach 1200 fps. That is the original factory load for the 10 mm (though now days it will be hard to find). It should give very good penetration and shouldn't exceed the power level the Glock was built for.

As to whether 10 mm is enough - I can't give anything but theory. I've never had an encounter with a bear, let alone had to shoot one. I would guess that it would be better than a sharp stick or a rock. I would, however, bet that it would be better than a gun she refuses to practice with or refuses to carry.

10mm bear defense

penetration is not stopping power, you can shoot an elk or bear with a .300 WIN MAG multiple times and that animal will run another mile, the penetration is good, but only if vitals are hit, the GOLD DOT increases the temporary wound cavity, and increases the permanent would channel and that is what actually stops an animal as apposed to penetration alone, that is why hydra shok is so successful, but penetration is better with GOLD DOT, making it a better bear load, if there was one, the point is optimize the load for the calibre even if the caliber is not optimum the load can be,

Some animals qualify for solids. If shooting a grizzly with a handgun doesn't meet that criteria, I don't know what would.

10mm bear defense

No stopping power data I've seen concurs with your statement that some stopping power situations require solids. I've only seen people who claim to have experienced it, but they probably didn't document scientifically what really caused the animal to stop, All the scientifically documented data I've seen suggests that stopping power is an amalgamation of factors, and not suggesting that it requires solids, if by solids you mean, a bullet with no expansion, in fact, it's not even legal in some states to hunt with.... most kinds of what I'd say are solids, because of the poor performance, the question is.. have you read this thread? politely asking of course.. because I lay out the skinny, and it's pretty good, *pats self on back* even though you don't appreciate the intense research invested... I bet, you will benefit from my suggestions listed preceeding this comment... Or, tell us what you mean by solids, and what you measured to be true regarding their performance or what others have measured, i'm not talking about, ... "I once could saw, that a grizzle bar, was taken down by a RN .38 Special to the roof of ees mouth" come on...

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: .458 45 CAL :: 45 Cal .458 500 gr DGS®

That is a 500 gr solid bullet. DGS stands for Dangerous Game Solid. They are used when using a rifle to hunt large, dangerous game. If a person is taking on a bear with a pistol, he needs the equivalent to that bullet in his pistol, a non-expanding solid for the deepest penetration possible.

10mm bear defense

I admire your find, but the question posed was for 10mm, the requirements of the essay, are not satisfied with your answer, did you read the thread? Did you read the question? The user asked a question and set some limits, you breached the parameters of the question.

No, I didn't. The principle is the same whether it's the 10mm or a .458 Winchester. When you are shooting game which is extremely tough and for which the gun is minimally powerful (such as a 10mm on a bear) you need penetration, not expansion.

10mm bear defense

The parameters are; it's a girl who does not like revolvers, and the question is; Glock20, can it work (10mm) on a grizz, not is it the best, but, is it possible, now, the bullet you posted would for sure work if placed well, but I can see that bullet is almost like armor piercing, which is usually not legal to hunt with that i know of, and the bullet you posted is also very good for penetration but it's the wrong caliber and firearm, the idea of the question is to explore the possibility of the 10mm hand loaded; as commercial loads are not available to best fit for grizz, and the user requested no other calibers be discussed, that does not mean I don't like that bullet you posted it's just not what the user asked, no offense. So to say that my suggestion of a 10mm loaded with 10.5 grains of blue dot and stuffed with a gold dot 180 grain bonded, seems to be the optimum load, based on the data i've seen, when one looks at available components that are loaded for 10mm that is, and to be honest, I'd never want to shoot a grizz with anything, because that grizz is 1,000 lbs of trouble I don't want to piss off, but if the bear ate your friend, or was feeding on your dog, then you might dump a mag or two into his nasal or occular cavity area, with what you have, be it a 10mm, then so be it, and if be it, be the gold dot 180 grainers which can penetrate the 10.5 inches necessary to destroy the brain, provided the round does not deflect,

Actually you can buy 230 gr WFN Gas Check bullets and loaded ammunition from Double Tap. 1120fps/641 fps Glock 20.
This is a very hard cast Keith Type Bullet. As you know Keith Types have very good penetration. I expect unless it hits bone it would come out about .401” as it went in.

I have utterly no interest in facing any Grizzly, but if I were in harms way with only my 10MM it would be with loaded with solids and Oh, would not be a Glock.

Exactly. A hard-cast Keith type swc or a FMJ flat point would be my recommendation.

somecomeget said:

To be honest. A small woman can not handle the kick of .454 Cas it's just too powerful a cartridge. All I can say, is no way, would this lady be able to hold on. And or fire it twice. She would test fire it once and never shoot it again.

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Greetings, Friends,

My wife and I have backpacked up in Alaska several times, and each time we go, both of us are carrying heavily loaded revolvers, "just in case". We always hope and pray that we will not need to use them, but that does not stop us from carrying them, and practicing long and hard before our trips!! My wife carries my 4" M657 S&W, loaded with very heavy, hard-cast WFN LBT bullets, and I carry my 7 1/2" Freedom Arms Field Grade .454 Casull, also very heavily loaded. The first time we flew out of McCarthy, Alaska, to backpack the Wrangel-St. Elias area, using map and compass, our Bush Pilot wanted to see our guns and ammo before he flew us out there. After he saw what we planned to carry, he showed us what HE carries, which is an FA .454, with a shorter barrel!! He uses almost the exact same load that I carry, BUT, he also has a Wild West upgraded Marlin .45-70 in his small plane, as his main gun. The Casull is his "just in case" gun, as are our pistols! Personally, I would NEVER to into the Bush with a Glock 10mm as my only armament. Just too many problems with doing something like that. And as for small woman not being able to handle the .454, I must take honest issue with that statement. My wife, who is 5'6" tall, and weighs 125 lbs, can shoot my FA Casull very competently and accurately, with the heavy loads. NO, she doesn't LIKE doing that, but she can surely do it, if needs be, and is confident with her abilities to protect both of us with that gun, and also the M657 she chooses to carry. So, I believe it's a matter of training, and also desire. Any woman who truly wants to save her own bacon, and the bacon of others, should things go South on her in an instant, should not be concerned about whether she LIKES the gun she is shooting, only that she is able to shoot it properly!! BTW, my Casull is the single most accurate firearm I've ever owned, and if I do my part, from the bench, it will put all five of it's rounds into the same hole at 25 yards. Personally, though it is a far more powerful revolver, I think it recoils less than my S&W 8 3/8" Nickeled M29!! Better grip design, at least for me. For what it's worth..... I'm only blessed to have married a wonderful woman (coming up on 30 years ago!) who is more concerned with safety, than in comfort, when it comes to shooting hand guns at large and dangerous bears!!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

10mm bear defense

Well, as far as the kick, can you speak for your wife? Maybe you should have her post her oppinnion on that... if she can confirm she don't mind pulling that .454 casull trigger, under stress, i'd like her to say so... for what it's worth, I have shook some hands of various ladies and they all have different strengths, some girls you almost wonder if their bones bent just on a hand shake, other girls have a nice shake, the question is, do all girls possess the gumption to pull a .454 casull trigger with out hearing protection and not be traumatized,... or at least shell shocked some, no, I'd be rockin it out with my 10mm, you know, if you practice you can put 5 controlled shots on a coffee can with ease, I'd say skill is part of it... I'd practice two controlled shots followed by three rapid shots, followed by rockin out like mad. Depending on scenario, and done while moving toward cover simultaneously, putting spare mag in weak hand and preparing reload, like an experience operator as opposed to a surprised noob. What do ya'll think.